User talk:Martinevans123/Archive 6

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Lynette White

The Guardian article just states "two trials." I haven't finished writing this in yet, but another source gives the specifics: the first case was R. v Francine Cordle (for the attempted murder of Tina Garton) and the second was R. v Robert Gent & Eric Marasco (for attempting to procure the services of a 13 year old girl for prostitution.) Keristrasza (talk) 18:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks. I had guessed they were probably some kind of prostitution/pimping charges. That information may be worth including if not too bulky. I will leave well alone until you are done. You are making some great improvements here. I don't think most people realise that the first murder trial was the longest in UK history. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:35, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Severn road crossings - finances

The articles on the Severn Bridge and Second Severn Crossing could benefit from a section or two on the funding arrangements for the crossings, also perhaps covering the perceived impacts of the tolls on the local economy. I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be a section in either of the articles on the existing arrangements, and the timing of any changes. Do you think there should be a section in one or other of the articles, or a new article - or should it be (or is it, and I missed it) covered elsewhere? I read this reference, thinking to include it somewhere, and thought you might have an opinion.. ??! Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:22, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi Gh, very good to hear from you. I fully agree that there should be a section, probably in each of those articles. I seem to remember reading (or being told) years ago that the cost of the first bridge was never going to be repaid by means of tolls and so was "written off" in some way. But that may just be an old wives' tale. If the information you suggest does already exist somewhere then I too have certainly not seen it. But many thanks for asking. I must admit that I have spent little time doing "serious editing" for a while, but have spent most of my time idly gossiping over on Malleus Fatuorum's page (where all sorts of people have recently popped up!) It's quite a shock to get "indef-ed", even if one is a wiki-minnow like me. But then, as you are well aware, most of my editing is pretty frivolous at the best of times, haha. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:26, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
OK, thanks. Maybe someone will get round to it, one day. So, is it yourself quoted there? Re Malleus, I think I'm luke warm at the moment. On the one hand... but on the other... Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:20, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, indeed, only myself quoted, only myself to blame! I'm not carrying a flag for Malleus. But the whole episode raises some deeper questions, I think. I'll email you (only once, I promise) about "other matters" - but don't worry it's hardly very serious! Keep up the good work on Brynbuga. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:03, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

List of unusual deaths

All entries need a source, otherwise people could add all sorts of unsupported nonsense - and there's a lot of it out there -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:44, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

The source article seems to have lots!? Sorry, I just can't type that fast!!Martinevans123 (talk) 22:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Looks fine now - sorry if I was too quick ;-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:48, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
No probs. But open to other opinions - although legit, is it notable enough (dangerous sports, etc.. )? I think perhaps the fact he's got his own article qualifies it. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:54, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Belated "Happy New Year"

Hi Martin,

May I wish you a belated "Happy New Year"? Thank you for the splendid greeting posted on my talk page over Christmas, and thank you for your comments regarding my page. Much appreciated. I have had a sabbatical from my computer and, therefore, Wikipedia, since the Thursday before Christmas, so now I have plenty to catch up with.

All the best,

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:55, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks. Good to see you back. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
As you have noticed, I have got stuck into a tussle with another cursed anon. I applaud your valued input. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 11:26, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Love your Wiki-term "Lurker".
Go to this talk page and you will see that I have made good use of it. The wretched anon is on the way to becoming serial.
Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:02, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
No worries. I am in no position to contribute to the actual subject debate. But it seems to be a bit "misguided" for an ip editor, whoever they really are, to be lecturing a registered editor about any part of WP rules and regulations. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Couldn't agree more. By the way, Lurker has continued his action of deleting my edit today. Do you recommend that I exercise patience, and leave the re-instating to others (as indeed Charlr6 did last night) or should I follow my gut feeling and do what I believe in?
Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 17:38, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I'd certainly exercise patience, and try and leave the re-instating to others. Naturally, if all you want to do is get your version in the article at all costs, you can just take it in turns, with one or more other editors, to revert an ip's input. But this is really just edit waring. It's best to use the Talk Page discussion to try and build a consensus and if that doesn't get anywhere, you could seek advice from a friendly admin. I think in most discussions more weight is usually afforded to editors who have names and not just ip addresses! It's sometimes obvious (and frustrating) that more energy is expended by editors over arguing than is spent on adding new, uncontentious, material to many other articles. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:53, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for that. I agree. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:51, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Post Script: All satisfactorily resolved. All involved editors have reached agreement, and my original edit remains in situ.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:31, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks for letting me know. That's a very good result! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
So you are still up, like me. I have just added this to my talk page. (Thought you might like it):
Nuvola apps korganizer.svgThis user thinks that registration should be required to edit articles.
Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 00:44, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
Haha yes thank you. If I ever use user boxes (again), I might well use this one. But I am a great equivocator on registration. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:47, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I know you are, and more importantly, you have a good sense of humour. When I have a little idle time, I shall recount a sad story about a good Wikipedia editor, a man I had learned to respect, but who failed to ever "lighten-up".
Anyway, as one Welshman to another, I thought this might tempt you back:
Welsh dragon.svgThis user is not a dragon but will probably be one in his next life
Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 11:44, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Haha, always tempted. In fact, in view of my exchange with RolePlayer (below) it seems quite appropriate. Yes, many editors seem to see a sense of humour as un-enclyclopedic! But I find it pretty essential. I'll probably add one of the Welsh user boxes before too long. Especially if I can find one with a smirking dragon, instead of a smoking one... Martinevans123 (talk) 14:50, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Hello Martin, I spotted this discussion early this morning,picking up on Garik's appeals for help, and have been following the ensuing discussion since with interest and trying to work out how to contribute in an original sense. How about you? Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I saw some discussion there last year. I know Ghmyrtle has made some input, and he is usually the voice of reason. But I took it off my Watchlist as I felt I had nothing to contribute. I have left a note at User talk:Charlr6 as I thought he might be interested. I am surprised that Varlaam is causing any problem, he has always been very amicable. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Didn't know of this Varlaam before this morning. Is he Welsh? But surely our young friend is English, isn't he? Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 23:01, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Welsh is one of the few languages with which Varlaam does not seem to be acquainted. Our friend in Redditch, meanwhile, seems to share only a Christian name with our own Archbishop - but he seems to be a bit of a film fiend. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:18, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Varlaam certainly enjoys his disrupting of the Hedd Wyn (film) article: why return to it after one year? ... and why not enter the discussion? ... his only input there was in the edit summary. He would appear to be a serious editor.
Now, (regarding our friend Rowan) I posted the same two userboxes, plus another, on his talk page. He used the first two without delay, but as for the smoking dragon (it's still on his talk page) and no reaction. Cannot be Welsh. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:00, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Hey! What have you done to my two userboxes (above)..? The contents of which, having crept out of their cells, have streched out right across the page. Vandal. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 16:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Haha, sorry no idea! I never touched 'em, m'lud! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Maybe the original templates have been altered? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 17:19, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Well, they still are locked up in my gaol. (That does look strange in print..."gaol") Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 17:46, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Well done, that man (PCW) Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:08, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Many thanks, PCW. I might even use them one day! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

St Mary's Priory Church, Monmouth

I agree the photgraph does seem to make the tower lean, but I don't have the Photoshop or Wikipedia expertise to correct this. So, short of taking a new photo, which I may do when I'm down there in a week or two, I can't help. As to getting to have a look at the article, still a very good idea. He's hugely improved some Manchester/William Burges stuff I've done in the past. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 00:13, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's probably the best idea. There aren't many images of the church in geograph, and none that seem much better than this ine for now. I will ask Peter when I get a moment. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:25, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
I've tried another image from WikiCommons. Less wonky but any better really? KJP1 (talk) 01:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know. I personally think that that one is a lot better. It certainly compliments the one used for Monmouth Methodist Church. What we really need are some views from the other side of the church (where it's not partly obscured, I think) and some detail images, perhaps in a gallery. But I'm sure we can improve as people take more. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Took the one I've used in the box, and one from the churchyard when down this weekend. I think it's better? But, to my fury, the church itself was locked so couldn't get any interior shots. I've never known the church locked in thirty or more years. KJP1 (talk) 21:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Both excellent images that work really well here. You should be justifiably proud. But locked out? arh, the price of wiki fame! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


Thanks so much for all your hard work on articles relating to Monmouth, please add your name to the contributors list at Wikipedia:GLAM/MonmouthpediA

best wishes

--Mrjohncummings (talk) 22:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

That's very thoughtful. But I have to admit that none of the work I ever do here is hard. That way it remains a pleasure. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:14, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

High Wycombe high Street

Barnstar of Diligence.png The Barnstar of Diligence
The number of times I had edited that article, and I thought I had good attention to detail! roleplayer 16:50, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
My word, with all these trophies, I'll need to get a cupboard, haha. But thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:02, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
You should get one of these! -- roleplayer 19:09, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
No really, I'd prefer a cupboard, haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:13, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Cross loops

Arrow slits or loop-holes (archeres): An arrowslit is a thin vertical aperture in a fortification through which an archer can launch arrows. It is alternatively referred to as an arrow loop, loop hole, or archere, and sometimes a balistraria. Arrow slits come in a remarkable variety. A common form is the cross. KJP1 (talk) 18:44, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I am much obliged. I did a quick search here, without success, but you have saved me a bit of Googling. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:55, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Troy House

Thanks - but not to me; the article just needed a little nurturing. The country house template looks good but, as I've said, I'm so feeble on the technical side that I'll leave someone else to try it. Troy's a sad house - not good enough to be a significant attraction, too good, and big, probably ever to be viable as a private home again. On the upside - a lot of the MonmouthpediA articles are taking shape really well. Best regards. KJP1 (talk) 21:03, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Lynette White

Still a ton to do, but I just haven't had the time to do it =( Images might be tricky. There is certainly a very good fair use case for an image of White (particularly as she is deceased so no new images will be released and the existing images were released for media distribution by the police.) Might be use for a map; the various defendants don't appear to have anything freely available; may be worth asking Cardiff project (if there is one, maybe South Wales) if anyone is able to snap an image of the building. Keristrasza (talk) 10:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, do they have a noticeboard? I see that the main image used by most of the press is attributed to the Press Association. Does that mean they have copyright? I have no experience in this area. I see that this article by Duncan Higgit [1] which is quite good (and very recent) uses it and also has one of Gafoor. Thanks anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:52, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
One of the chaps at the Cardiff project has listed himself as being a possible source for Cardiff images. I've left him a message asking if he might be able to help us out with relevant photographs of the area. Keristrasza (talk) 13:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for telling me. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:56, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Gold Hill pictures

Thanks for the input Martin! (you talk page stalker you ...) :) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:12, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, haha. I have a habit of not deleting Talk pages from my watch list after an exchange. If anything interesting later pops up, I take a look. Thundercloud is obviously a very genuine editor and I do hope that we have not discouraged him. A photographer can be very useful! Regards, your Moomin pal. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:17, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi Martin. Apols for not responding to your last posting regarding the Gold Hill pics - I'm a bit busy in the non-wiki world at the mo, plus my monitor is currently making everything look very dark and pink (I think there's something wrong with its production/transmission of green). Hence I couldn't decide on a better pic..... (PS Note that I've now copied the discussion over to the article's talk pages) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

No worries at all. Perhaps I'll go ahead and choose one of those three - my abysmal eyesight is actually slightly better with images than with words (e.g. I just mis-read your text here as "my mother is currently making everything look very dark and pink ..." !? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:15, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Haha. Well, it is a long-standing condition of hers - I think there's something wrong with her production/transmission of green...... ;) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I didn't like to say anything .. my own mother has temporarily lost her contrast function again. Bless. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


Hi Martin. Can you speak Welsh? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:09, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, only a very little and not on a regular basis. Why do you ask? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I was hoping for a bit of Welsh-speaking authority to comment on a discussion I opened regarding Dwygyfylchi (remember that?). I think I probably made a bit of a fool of myself - not for the first time. I guess that only I would have the cheek to question a language and pronunciation expert on a matter concerning language and pronunciation, but my memory is usually doggedly reliable.... Intrigued? - take a look here. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:22, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I've read your discussion and you have the stress spot on. There is a little variation in accent between North Wales and the South (where I'm from), but the sound at this link sounds pretty accurate to my Monmouthshire ears! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately I've never been able to get my (inherited) pc to produce sound (except for strange clicking and whirring noises...) - that's a bit frustrating! Does that link have someone speaking the name? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, and although he sounds like a slight Scouser to me, he does have it pretty well. Anyway it supports what you and kwami have said. Perhaps kwami be able to listen to it? Website is here [2] Martinevans123 (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's probably a good idea pass the link on, though I'm a bit concerned kwami might feel I'm being like a dog that won't let go of a bone... I'm curious for myself to know if the speaker pronounces the last syllable khee or khai - did you notice? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:51, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Very clearly khee, as I would have expected. Rhymes with ci - which is Welsh for dog! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:59, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Haha. So much for my memory then - I'd gone around for years thinking it was khai! Anyway, I understand it's considered polite to alert another editor if they're being written about at all, so if you don't have any objections, I'll let kwami know about this little discussion (which has been very helpful - thanks!) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:14, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

By all means. I was just about to. But go ahead. One can download that audio clip - it's only 15 KB. I would email it to you, but I guess you still couldn't hear it. And you have no email link enabled anyway! D'oh. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi Martin: That clip sounds more like [dʊ̯ɨ] ("dwee") than like the [dʊɨ̯] ("dooy") I expected. Did I get the shape of the diphthong wrong? — kwami (talk) 23:04, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but as a South Walian Anglophile, I just can't comment on the accuracy of North Walian diphthongs. But, yes most people would say dwee! The four syllables will help to compress! Martinevans123 (talk) 23:10, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
It would be four syllables either way. I'll remove the diphthong mark, though, and change the respelling. — kwami (talk) 00:04, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


Hi Martin. I've still got kwami's talk page on my watchlist, and noticed your recent request. I suspect that the name vuvuvu is incorrect - it was added on 5th Jan by an editor whose only other contribution has been some nonsense in the sandbox. Previously the Tswana name was different. You may want to check it out. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:09, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Cheers, have reverted. Will check sources. I've heard the BBC use both Vuvu'zela and Vu'vuzela. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

BPS redlinks

yeah, I might create a few stubs over the next few days. The BPS website has copies of their obituaries plus links to various ODNB entries. Most I suspect will also be in Who's Who. The sources are there. Barney the barney barney (talk) 23:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Good luck. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Actually Vicki Bruce already has an article. Barney the barney barney (talk) 08:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh yes, that's great. Let's hope they're all as good as hers! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:23, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit summary

I was intrigued - but can you imagine my disappointment when I turned to the article expecting a new section on that legendary Monty Python character Geoffrey Wallhanging..... ? Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Haha, yes a shame. Never mind. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Section retitled: Cwm Rhondda

I show a posting below that I received last night on my talk page, together with my reply, and the user's response:

Bread of Heaven

I enjoyed your collection of flags at the top of this page.

I know (the English version of) the hymn that includes the line "bread of heaven". In fact, it is right up at the top of my favorites. But please tell me what is the specific connection between Welsh rugby and "bread of heaven".

Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 22:35, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Cwm Rhondda is a very well known Welsh hymn tune. First performed in 1907. Cwm Rhondda translates as "the Rondda Valley" in English, and more often than not, sung to the words: Guide me, O thou great Redeemer. Wales rugby union supporters adopted it years ago, although the reason is not understood, apart from the fact that it is an inspiring song which everyone knew (Sundays in chapel) and could keep repeating, and repeating... I think it splendid.
It was sung at the funerals of both Princess Diana and the Queen Mother, and at the wedding of Prince William and Catherine Middleton.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 23:25, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
It is indeed splendid, both tune and words. The version I learned (in the United Church of Canada) began Guide me, O thou great Jehovah.
The part of the story I did not know was its adoption by the Rugby union. A great anthem, known to everyone in Wales. I guess it is a natural. Wanderer57 (talk) 03:37, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Leeks for sale: Are you ready for The Six Nations?

I am wondering if you would be kind enough to add below any knowledge you may have on this topic.

Many thanks for your time.

With kindest regards,

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk)

Thank you for your lunchtime posting!
Early post indeed.
Do you like leeks?
Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:02, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Of course. Especially wikileeks! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:40, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Oh, that's very crisp. Thank you for your second posting on this topic "back at the farm". Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:00, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

People from Magor

Your wish is my command. KJP1 (talk) 00:15, 8 February 2012 (UTC) And the church. But such a stub. Work to be done.

Grade I listed buildings in Monmouthshire

Many thanks for the Raglan cross. I've never seen it, although I spent my childhood in the village. The Grade I buildings are now nearly done, but the Grade II* listeds is a very daunting task. KJP1 (talk) 11:25, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

There's no rush! I'm struggling to keep up as it is..... ! Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:35, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Quite so, haha. There appear to be no images on-line, but it is in someone's garden, so not so surprising! I have certianly never seen it. I guess it's not a Celtic Cross, then? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:39, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Have sent my father, who still lives in the village, out with his Box Brownie to track this down. The fact that it lies in someone's garden will not deter him! So we shall see. KJP1 (talk) 19:31, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Haha, amazing. Let's hope he gets one (in daylight though!) Good stuff. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:36, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, it's not the Statue of Liberty!,_Monmouthshire
Haha, true. But it's hardly insubstantial, either. Most of the Celtic Crosses I have seen are of similar stature. But that's most intruiging - it looks very modern me, especially that angular top (also, from the picture, the base looks flat not octagonal?) I'm amazed if it really is medieval. I wonder why it's there? Is it really now in someone's garden?! Well done for that picture. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:59, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, in the back garden of an old couple. They're obviously quite used to visitors as they gave my father a photocopy of an article on the cross written by Fred Hando, no less. When he's scanned it up, I'll link it. I agree, I can't see the "octagonalness" of it. KJP1 (talk) 15:17, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, they may be old, but I bet they're not medieval., so there! I am keen to see the Hando article. Great work, KJP1. Octagonality? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:24, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Added a little from Bradney and Hando. Not sure how to upload the article to Wikipedia, nor can I reference it properly as I don't think it's come from a book but from an old copy of the South Wales Argus, although there's no date on it beyond the date of 1961 on his sketch, which is clearly the same cross as the photo. Do you want me to type in the text and paste it into your talk page? KJP1 (talk) 18:29, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Many apologies for missing this. I had wondered if you had found it. Looks like it was dated 27-10-61, as shown here. Not sure there is any need to upload it - but you coukd take advice from GhM. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk)

Patchen question

Please see the Kenneth Patchen talk page, for my response to your question. Best.Jpcohen (talk) 18:11, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I have replied at both his and your Talk Page. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:16, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Rick Stein

Just following you around, acting as your Wiki-spectacles, haha! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:55, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Aww, haha, thanks. So much nicer than a white stick and a tray of damp shoe-laces. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:57, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

A tray of damp shoe-laces? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:02, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, he was the scarry Big O look-alike that used to stand, every Saturday, outside the Marks and Spencer in the Newport of my youth. He also sold needles and thread (also usually damp). A direct link with the hawking tradition of the early 20th Century tramp so eloquently described by W. H. Davies. But probably no longer allowed to trade by the European Court of Human Rights. You will have probably guessed by now, also, that the keys U, I and O on my keyboard no longer have any letters marked on them (to name but a few!) Martinevans123 (talk) 00:11, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Haha - I was about to correct that link, but you beat me to it, as I had followed a link on hawking and hence become distracted by the article on Stinky tofu - which is perhaps a fitting title when discussing such characters as you describe! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:30, 19 February 2012 (UTC) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:30, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Patchen contributions

Good job with your additions to the Kenneth Patchen article. For a while it seemed like there weren't many Wiki contributors (other than myself and one or two others) making significant contributions to the article. So my hat's off to you for helping to beef it up.Jpcohen (talk) 18:55, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Jp. It's my pleasure. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:03, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

David Kelly

There is no need to be rude in your edit summaries. We're both working toward the same honorable goal of writing an encyclopedic article about David Kelly. I'm sure you know it's the responsibility of each editor to verify his or her own edits. Please be civil. Thanks, --Tenebrae (talk) 00:15, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

That was a question. I have responded on your Talk Page. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:22, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Martin. Not sure I understand. I removed it since it was uncited, and rather than put a "citation requested" tag, I removed the reference since it seemed to me that having a possibly inaccurate final resting place for a recently deceased person, no matter how small the chance, was not a good idea.
Archiving web pages into or (there might be other not-for-profit archiving sites, but those are the two biggest) helps prevent "link rot." This way, if a Web page ever goes away, its information will not be lost. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:34, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Not to be contentions, but that's not actually true. According to WP:BURDEN, "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material." No harm done. All good. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:36, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Works for me. I had gone with the phrasing of the article, but you're right, if he was taken to a crematorium, it's not original research to say he was cremated. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:41, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Martin. I read The Chronicle article that Jimbo linked to, as per your suggestion. I do understand that writer's frustration — I've gone through similar things. At the same time, I found the article writer a bit whiny: There are ways of phrasing things in an article that acknowledge minority views without giving them undue weight, and there's no intrinsic way of knowing that his book is right and every previous book is wrong. He believes it strongly, of course, but his could be simply a revisionist view that the next scholar will come along and refute.
It's interesting with Kelly because we have one article in which he was interviewed where the author (not Kelly) gives a different birth year than other sources. Since it was a reliable source, since the author spoke with Kelly, and since it was the only place that said this, I mentioned the discrepancy in a footnote in order to acknowledge it for future researchers rather than pretend it didn't exist.
Now, while The Stage is the only source so far that gives Kelly's death date as Feb. 13, there are only a couple of other sources that give Feb. 12. Most sources, including BBC News, one of the world's most respected, just says "has died", demonstrating that they could not ascertain the exact date. (It happens; someone may expire a few minutes before midnight in front of his family, but isn't pronounced dead until a few minutes after; the latter time will be the one on official documents.) Obviously I don't know if that's the case here, but just obviously something unusual occurred since most sources don't give a specific date. At this point, I'm not sure how we can know which date is the correct one.
I'll check on that footnote; it's possible I put a typo in there. Good eye! --Tenebrae (talk) 14:51, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Footnote 13, linking to the IFTA awards page, works OK for me, both in the original link and the archive link. Maybe it was just a temporary connectivity problem. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:55, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for the kind words! --Tenebrae (talk) 15:38, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Good point. I went ahead and put in the full name as given at the Mount Jerome article. Should have caught that myself -- good eye! --Tenebrae (talk) 18:58, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Oxford DNB

Since you asked in your edit summary at the Thomas Gray article, and judging by the number of edits to UK-related pages you've made, you may be interested to know that ODNB online can be be accessed for free by almost all UK public library card holders: [3] NotFromUtrecht (talk) 23:14, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Could you help show how to do it?

Hi Martin, starting to push the Charles Rolls challenge. We should have quite a few Monmouth DYKs on the front page tomorrow. Could you sign up here if only to wencourage others :-) Oh and thanks for your support! Victuallers (talk) 15:42, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I am very flattered to be even considered for such a challenge. And if I'd actually managed to do any of those things on the points list, I'd even consider adding my name. But my contributions tend to be so diverse, sporadic and minor that it's very unlikely that I'd amass 10 points by the end of the year! But I'll certainly consider trying them all, if I find the time. Thanks for the offer. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:26, 29 February 2012 (UTC)



I've been good. Just been busy doing a lot of Uni work. Currently on Wikipedia I'm trying to convince people that "The Artist" isn't a Silent Film, which it isn't as there are two scenes of diegetic sound (diegetic means 'real' sound, sound characters will hear), one of which is in a nightmare sequence when the character moves and touches objects and we hear the sound of them and the other is the final scene of the film where two characters are talking. These two scenes with 'actual' sound take away the film from being a "Silent film" as a silent film has always in every definition been a film with no audio from the characters world, either from cars moving or people walking and especially no talking. But how have you been?Charlr6 (talk) 20:24, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

That's a shame - I was looking forward to that guy at the front of the auditorium playing the piano! But it must be wierd - does it not have any music of its own? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:29, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Haha, sadly there isn't a guy with a piano at the front of the auditorium. It does have music of its own but over-the-top of the video of the actual film like a normal soundtrack. All of the 'Silent' parts of the film are in the tradition of silent films except it being a guy with a piano, its just music over the top like a soundtrack. Charlr6 (talk) 20:47, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Oh, I see. Well it definitely isn't a silent film then! The last silent film I saw was this one by Abel Gance - that was a few years ago! But that had an orchestrated score added to it. Anyway I have been fine, thanks. I see from Gareth's page that you have been film-making. I would dearly love to see what you have done if you upload it to YT - you can email me the link if you like - do you have an account there? Your course sounds quite fascinating. I hope you have not been too plagued by trolls and lurkers lately. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:57, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Is there a direct email messaging thing on Wikipedia at all? I could send you the link on there. But I haven't seen many trolls or lurkers recently, if anything its just Wikipedians who don't seem to realise the difference between a 'talkie' and a 'silent film' and the rules of them both. Charlr6 (talk) 21:29, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes, sure. From here, or my User Page, look for "E-mail this user" in the Toolbox. One can turn this facility on and off as one wishes. Looing forward to your link! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:35, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

Editors Barnstar.png The Editor's Barnstar
Thank you for all your great work. I am very glad you didn't leave us last year and decided to keep going, despite everything. Span (talk) 00:37, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Happy St David's Day

Happy St David's Day, Martin.

I sent you your leeks about a month ago, so you will have to make do with this greeting today!

Kindest regards,

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 00:56, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Let Me In

  • I have just seen this [[4]] discussion, and thought that you would want to read it. It is No. 24 in the Table of contents.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 00:56, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Some hymn! ...mmm... I'd prefer something by Fleetwood Mac or The Eagles.
The reason why I sent you the sub-section above was a bit sneaky. I had posted our young (film buff) friend very late last night, just before I sent it to you, but couldn't get the link to finish on Section No. 24. So I thought I would ask you to look at it and put me straight.
Best wishes, Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:39, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I think you meant this (just single brackets, with a space)? I'll have a look. Shame you'd prefer some shameless American pop act to a fine bit of Kelly and the lads, haha. Never mine the sentiment is still there! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:21, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't regard either group, POP... really! (and of the era that I like, three of the five in Fleetwood Mac are Brits.)
Thanks: the link does work your way, but I can't see the "space" anywhere. Also, I notice you have not used the'pipe' before the word "this". Whilst editing this posting, I can see Charlr6's link does not even have the single bracket either end, and his takes you straight to the section. Can you help me and explain all this, please. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 21:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I wish I could. Most of my wiki education has been trial and error, I'm afraid. Well, at least Mick Fleetwood was born in Redruth - a Celtic neighbour of ours. Maybe I should have sent you something by Y Peth or Y Cyrff! One of my freinds still calls this band "Cat-a-walia", haha.Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Having just read the two linked articles, I'm glad you didn't. However I do like Cerys Matthews very much. Probably because she reminds me a little of Stevie Nicks.
I expect PCW can throw some light on my queries (above). Do you think he may be watching?
Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm sure that PCW is always watching. Even when he's not there! A bit like a certain BIG character from a well-known film only 28 years ago, but in a much nicer way, of course. I can't complain - PCW acts as my benevolent "wiki-spectacles"! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:52, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Having read 1984 at school, probably in 1958, it would be set 26 years in the future. That is crazy.
Postscript: I thought this might be appropriate here.


1984.pngBig Brother is watching this user.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 11:49, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Arguably one of Eric Arthur's worst titles, although, of course, he died 34 years before he could have found out. Maybe. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:29, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, a sort of planned obsolesence in the Arthur C. Clarke mould - though quite snappy, it has to be said... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:46, 1 March 2012 (UTC) Anyway, I would do it this way. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:15, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Works for me and much simpler - thanks. Yes, that other Arthur only missed out by three years, didn't he. Is there a pattern here? Maybe a new Category is needed! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:37, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi, PCW! Excellent. Once again you have sorted out my confusion. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 09:36, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey look at this

Hey there,

Look at this if you are interested. There is some extremely annoying person on this link below that I have just copied and pasted over. They wanted to know what "non-diegetic" means and I told them and gave them a link to a website which has further information on it. And then the person replies saying and implying that I wrote the Wikipedia article and that its my fault its like that and I should follow rules and not have excessive linking. I do not know what this persons problem is as it seems that they are not listening at all to anything I have said.

Check it out if you want.

Charlr6 (talk) 18:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

(Excuse my butting in, Martin...) I think you and the other editor are talking at crossed purposes; the other editor is objecting to the use of the term "non-diegetic" within the The Artist (film) article - they're not, as far as I understand, commenting on the Diegesis article at all. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
("... goodness me," he gasped, "am I now just the non-diagetic interjection in this gripping narrative?!") (dramatic surge in auditorium piano accompaniment) (fade to grey ...) Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Haha, yes, apologies - I got intrigued... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:34, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Charlr6, I can see why you are a bit annoyed. Why can't the word be linked!? After all, the idea is to educate the reader, isn't it? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:59, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't know. I don't know why he just doesn't do it himself and is practically blaming or implying it's my fault that the article is hard to understand. Charlr6 (talk) 21:06, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I really don't know. But I suggest you just walk away - there's no point wasting any more of your time, with some editors, I am sorry to say. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:09, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I actually am going to walk away. And if he continues, I'll read it and then just report it as there is no need for him to have a go at me about it even though I was trying to help him understand what the word meaned. I don't' know why he just didn't go onto the actual page of 'diegetic' and talked on there. Charlr6 (talk) 21:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Quite so. You were obviously just trying to be hekpful. He certainly should raise his concerns at that page itself. Once he knows what it means he could even try and help to improve it! Do email me by the way. :) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't know how to email on Wikipedia and send personal messages. How do I do it? Thanks Charlr6 (talk) 23:26, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
From this page, or from my User Page, look over to the left where it says "Toolbox" and under there you should find an option called "E-mail this user". That's all you need! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:07, 2 March 2012 (UTC)


As tabloids, the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday definitely wouldn't be considered as reliable sources, especially for a WP:BLP article. --John (talk) 00:20, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for watching. Ok, fine - I quite agree they should be improved. What do you want to do about the Chris Evans music (and farming - but whereabouts is that, by the way?) stuff? Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:24, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
.. or not watching? what's unreliable? what's unsourced? and what's trimmed? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:40, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your understanding. Per previous discussions at WP:BLPN these sources are not considered reliable ones for contentious claims. I think the radio show would require some sort of third party coverage; the radio show itself is a primary source and we prefer secondary ones. --John (talk) 00:59, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
I have no issue with the tabloids. As regards the radio show - I think we're very unlikely to ever get "third party" coverage (or do you/"we" prefer secondary sources?). But you never know. My own view is that the actual broadcast was primary and the BBC website, with list of music played, is the secondary, but unfortunatley it doesn't make it clear which were Clarkson's "official choices". From where else, however, do we have any claim or a source for his farming activities? This seems quite important. Your wholesale deletion seems a little heavy handed here. And it's not clear from your edit summaries what you've done or why you've done it. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 01:11, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
So, could you elaborate? There are plenty of edits sourced from "primary" radio and television programmes all over wikipedia. Do you think they should all be removed? And did you know that Clarkson has a (surprisingly modest) farm>? [5]? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:12, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Two separate issues here. On primary sources my stance is that they should only be used for things like dates of birth that are indisputable. On Clarkson's agricultural exploits I would be open to including that in the article with a source. --John (talk) 09:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Is that just your personal view or is it wikipedia policy? And are the broadcast and the programme information on the BBC website both the same single primary source? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:21, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
That's policy, and we also have WP:BLPPRIMARY which takes an even stronger line. On the second question I could be swayed by argument. In removing this material (which I accept you added with good intentions) I was mindful that there is an awful lot of fancruft in that article which is similarly poorly sourced and which should also be removed. Why not post it at one of the boards? I am usually right on things like this but I am not infallible. --John (talk) 09:33, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, John. I tend to agree about the fancruft. But I'm not that bothered - just thought it was useful in terms of his musical tastes. Bur then Evans also claimed that he'd choosen a track by Bros! I was more thrown by your rapid removal of the Breakfast Show alongisde the tabloids. Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:43, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Radcliffe & Maconie

Hi Martin. I think I've come up with a reasonable compromise. The Radio 2 website is, to be fair, rubbish, but it does have photos of the walks that they did whilst doing the programme which don't appear on the 6 Music site, so I think it should stay for this reason. The category should also stay as, although the programme is no longer on Radio 2, it used to be and other defunct programmes (Chris Evans Drivetime for one) are also in this category. When football players transfer to another club the category of the former club remains in the article. The Radio 2 template should go as you argue as Radcliffe has his own article. Fair enough? Quentin X (talk) 09:58, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Q. Yes that's completeky reasonable and useful. I hadn't realised that the walks were still on there. That's perfectly fine with me. (I'm obviously still sore about that move to Radio 6 last year!) Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:03, 3 March 2012 (UTC)


Good work on Plath.

Nights, I squat in the cornucopia
Of your left ear, out of the wind,

Counting the red stars and those of plum-color.
The sun rises under the pillar of your tongue.

I would say the syntax of the word 'nights' here, without the context of the whole poem, is a bit odd - more ambiguous than in the poem itself. It's not clear whether she is addressing the nights or if it's American usage, as in "During the nights, I squat.." It's almost a theatrical direction "Nights." It's the comma after 'nights' that is strange in the poem. I'm not sure what it's for.

The sun rises under the pillar of your tongue.
My hours are married to shadow.
No longer do I listen for the scrape of a keel
On the blank stones of the landing.

This section is striking and demonstrates well her style, simplicity and typical use of natural imagery. I think it works as a unit. The plum colored stars are, admittedly, stunning. Span (talk) 19:31, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Well that's quite a coincidence! I was thinking of exactly that comma not ten minutes ago. Thirty years of reading this poem and still one is not finished. And yes, I had always seen that as a beautiful Americanism, one of the things that charmed me first with Plath's work. If you wish to cut the extract back, so be it. Maybe the smaller the quotes, the more likely reader is to seek out the full version themselves! Great to hear from you Span - one of the reasons I stayed. Thank you. (For me the "nights" is resolved only by the rising sun of the last stanza). Martinevans123 (talk) 19:46, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
I think it's too small a niggle to make a change. I'll defer to your poetic judgement. I'm itching to get my hands on some recent descent Plath biogs and do a proper job on the article. The death section does need work. Maybe this week. Enjoy the weekend. Span (talk) 20:41, 3 March 2012 (UTC)


I noticed you added a cartoon with an edit summary "not taking swipes at other editors" hahaha lol" to my talk page, and then removed it. I have no idea as to what your motives might be, but I think it would be a good idea if you kept off my talk page and I will avoid yours. J3Mrs (talk) 13:57, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Well avoided. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:41, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
I howled with laughter when I activated your link. Thank you Martin for brightening a dull Sunday evening! Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:32, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
"A caricature is putting the face of a joke on the body of a truth" - Joseph Conrad. I wouldn't claim that link as mine [6]. And I certainly would never paste a cartoon onto anyone's Talk Page. I have to admit that I also laughed out loud when I saw it and my rather optimistic motive was, alas, to spread the amusement. But the intoxicaton of hilarty is not always as infectious as one hopes it will be. I regard it as progess, however, as this time at least I didn't get threatened with being blocked from an apparently wholly impartial Administrator. As before, I had hoped my little jest would be a private matter. But as we all know "there is nothing private on Wikipedia". It is indeed unfortunate that "so many editors have no sense of humour", or at least can't see the funny side of a situation in which they are embroiled. I guess many editors (like a certain editor I can think of) are very earnest and diligent and have a lot to teach all of us, but just don't see humour as a necessary part of writing an encyclopedia. As a certain comic genius (probably the greatest) once said: "You can lead a horse to water, but if you can get him to float on his back then you've really got something." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:51, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
That sounds like Groucho Marx. Is it? Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:35, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:46, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
That's very clever. (As you say, there is only one.) Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:51, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
although possibly misattributed, have always loved: "Outside a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read." He was truly a comic genius. I have only to see his face to want to smile. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:00, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Didn't W H Smith have that one on their bags a year ago? The edit summaries of this strand tell a comic story worth recording. Good night. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 23:13, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
"My experience is that people are most likely to listen to reason when in bed." Martinevans123 (talk) 23:20, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Oh, I thought that was your own work. See you made a good job of the housekeeping! Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 08:44, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
No, not mine, that be classed as WP:OR!!
I've been wondering about Mrs. J3. Did she interpret your LOL as I did, or p'haps she thought its meaning was the original version. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 21:16, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, I really don't know. And I'm not too sure I'll be asking her just yet. I think, either way, it could hardly be construed as malicious. But then it still is pathetic and mindless childish vandalism!!!, as I'm sure you're well aware. LOL. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I've just had a perusal of the LOL page, which I didn't know existed and I admit is a bit of an education; I didn't realise that "ROFL" means "Roll[ing] on [the] floor laughing" - when Martin responded to my Moomin New Year greeting with "rofl", I'm afraid my rather coarse interpretation just assumed it had to mean "Roars of f***ing laughter!" (which I prefer, actually....) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:49, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

just watch out for ROFD ... "rolling on floor dying" (but if it's ROFDOL, that's ok, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:57, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, I don't know about you two but I am SMHID Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:29, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
While I'm just LSHMHHFO. I should have sent you a tune by this band, Gareth. But they're not Welsh ... but wait, hang on, WelshLolcattxtBand names - now there's a wikilist just pleading to be compiled! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:47, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
OMGNA! Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:56, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
WEIN? Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Very well thankyou. Hope you are too. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:34, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
PARA Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 21:05, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
probably another ruddy acronym? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:16, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Paralytic, very drunk. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 21:21, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
am surprised you can still type. GTK? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Just good to know. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:27, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Ty Gwyn

Regarding Ty Gwyn, I suppose you were going to say, "...reap what you sow"... Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 19:31, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Or drink what you plant, maybe? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:33, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
These days I prefer the fruit of the vine. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 19:36, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, of a evening, I often sit down with a nice bunch of M&S seedless, haha! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:39, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I've been so long, but I've just got back from our Waitrose, looking for a bottle of Ty Gwyn cider. They said they have, today, had an unexpected run on it ... they can't understand why. Do you know anything about this? Or is it down to the good doctor? Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 21:28, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
You'll never believe this... but I was just down at the Royal Opera House in Covent Garden and, much to my Miss Fortune, I soon discovered they had also run out down there!! Who knows what's going on. Yes, I expect 'old Blowers' has drunk the place dry by now. Him and that funny looking cat of his, haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:35, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


Just noticed your editing on the B*347 today, but both of you missed this *

While on this topic, I made this edit, "The road through the village (B4521) was once the A40, linking Ross-on-Wye and Abergavenny." on the Skenfrith article at 19:45 hrs. on 18 February 2012. Does that make it worthy of its own page like the B4521? Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:13, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure Wikipedia will not rest until it's done all the B-roads in the country and then moved on to some new wiki-method of classifying the unclassified ones! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
You could start here, I guess! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
I have a horror sensation that you might be serious. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 23:21, 15 March 2012 (UTC)


Thanks!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:36, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

KC = RF? No

The KC template contains information on RF projects outside of King Crimson, e.g. Guitar Craft. It contains information as well as the activities of former members of the band, e.g. Greg Lake, so the KC template serves for RF rather well. Besides, the KC template appears below the Fripp & Eno article, which is listed on the KC template, so the infallibility of Wikipedia's traditions should also be considered.

A template for RF would be better, I agree.

Feel free to revert me. (I only reverted you since you asked a question, so I felt your revert was tentative.) I will accept your revert without further ado, of course.

Best regards,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:43, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Kiefer. Yes, it was just a tentative rv. I really don't have any strong views on this. To be honest, I think the KC link is quite useful here, although maybe not as useful as one for RF alone. I tend to see "more info = more useful", and I try not to nit-pic over wiki conventions. Just thought the KC template was slightly invading Brian Eno, haha! And thanks for taking the time to drop me a note. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:07, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Robert Fripp has done enough---as have Adrian Belew and Tony Levin and Bill Bruford, of "my" KC---that each should have a navbox. Someday!
I don't like to re-revert, and so I thought that I owed you an explanation (besides the edit summary). Regards,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:25, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
But I'm not sure we'd really want to see a "Roxy Music template" added beneath all of them! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:39, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Agreed!  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:32, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


"Not to be confused with Braunston-in-Rutland." -- wrong Braunston for your Blue Ball addition. Best Wishes S a g a C i t y (talk) 19:24, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

My word that was quick. Many thanks. I assume it's mentioned there? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
Seems we also share an interest in jazz and music. Appreciate your cleanup work on jazz musicians and such. Well done! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:06, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, but I'm only ever "tarting up a bit". My tastes are rather wide, not to say occasionally unconventional! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:14, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

You might be interested in Henry Milbourne and Hilston Park. Glad to meet you. I do a lot of work with User:Rosiestep and will be happy to nominate you also with Llanrothean, The Cwm and anything you help with for DYK! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:13, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks, Blowers. Remember Llanwrthwl? I am very intrigued by Hilston Park, as I have never heard much about it, despite being a Gwent lad born and bred. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Ah yes, I had forgotten actually and that I met you on that but your user name had something familiar about it! I'm a Vale of Glamorganer myself. Don't worry about the links to wrong names, those can be dabbed later!♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

No worries at all. It's a dab feeding-frenzy, as far as I'm concerned! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Some might not be notable so best to do check one at a time I think. Just been looking at the High Sheriff of Monmouthshire and HIgh Sheriff of Glamorgan lists. They are extremely valuable for spotting old country estates. I found lots of people from local villages and no doubt to research their biographies would turn up a great deal of fascinating local history stuff. Must do some sometime.♦ Dr. Blofeld 23:11, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

I feel better now. KJP1 (talk) 07:29, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Got an annoying 'anon'

Hey there,

On the "Drive (2011)" page, in the past day there have been editors changing the genre of the film completely when previously it was Action with either Drama or Romance in at certain times, or all of them. The 'anon' with an IP "" has claimed that I am genre warrior even though I'm putting it back to how it's been for ages on the Wiki page. After putting it back earlier he has once again reverted my edit and says he will report me, him anon who will report me for putting the genre back to what its been for a while and everyone before was happy with it. I have started a new section on Drive's talk page as because he isn't registered I can't message him directly. Could you please assist me with this annoying 'anon'.

Thank youCharlr6 (talk) 22:01, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look. You seem to get more than your fair share of annoying anons. Sometimes you must feel as if you are "alone in the universe", sob. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Guess you're almost as annoyed with that misleading billing as that "Michigan woman named Sarah Deming"... ! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:31, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, very. Haha. Charlr6 (talk) 23:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Angel Hotel, Monmouth

Dear MartinEvans Are you sure about the history section? Apart from having no references, it doesn't appear to be true. The dates, for example, for Edward the First and his brother are hundreds of years before the 1640s. I strongly suspect much is a spoof. KJP1 (talk) 13:44, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Re-reading it, I suppose if the second and the third sentences were transposed, it could almost be right. But it still seems rather unencyclopedic, focusing on "odd tales" and with no citations. KJP1 (talk) 13:48, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Your stalker here! I've taken out the misplaced sentence, to make it clearer. I could comment further about the validity and encyclopedic-ness of much of the Heritage Trail leaflet .... but I might upset some people if I did! Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:11, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Whoah! I just tweaked the image caption and added two links! That's my input to date here, haha. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:09, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, when I carefully reviewed the history, as I should have done at the outset, I saw the author of the section, who is, I think, the author of much of the content of the Blue Plaque guide. KJP1 (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
"when a disgruntled jockey, who had been beaten at Monmouth Races, tried to set fire to the winning horse"; was he really trying to set fire to the horse, as opposed to the stable in which it was kept? KJP1 (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Rofl. A gem. And he might have stood a chance of winning if he'd actually been on a horse himself. Shame that it wasn't filmed. (I always use a box of swans myslelf, but the feathers make such a mess!) Martinevans123 (talk) 19:48, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
As Ghmyrtle says, whilst the enthusiasm of the Monmouthpedians is great, they don't always "get" Wikipedia. Down to Monmouth again this weekend so shall make another attempt to enter St Mary's and get a few good interior shots. KJP1 (talk) 23:15, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
"St Guy of the Villa", as I prefer to call him, is a boundless source of commonsense. As you may know, I would not be here any more, but for him. I think I know what he means. We can but strive to be the wiki-ying to the monmouth-yang. St Mary's was rather gloomy last time I visited, but still worthwhile - take a camera and get that firebell, haha! Martinevans123 (talk) 23:24, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Wyastone Leys

Wahh! massive edit conflict! If you like, I'll try to take on board your changes into my version.... ?? Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

You must have been doing a slow global revision? Please do however you wish. I have just been tweaking away and I'm sure any chnages you have made would be fine by me. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:50, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm trying to balance my feelings of "Isn't it great to have all these new editors contributing new articles", against my feelings of "OMG what is going on with this....?!" Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:22, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I know exactly what you mean. It's all a question of yin and yang, my dear chap. But think I'll just retire now for the evening, while the going's good. Will try and get a photo of that Bannerman monument when I can, but it may not last long in a gallery! I thought that one geograph image, so easily discarded, was quite stunning). Martinevans123 (talk) 23:28, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Kett's Rebellion

Thanks for the encouraging words. I might summarize the demands, as I think the list is rather lengthy. Perhaps I can find a link somewhere.Southdevonian (talk) 12:05, 17 March 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for personally taking the photos! One thing though can you locate the house here (you might want to click bing maps with label on the left to get your bearings) and jot down the exact coordinates for the infobox? Cheers!♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:02, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Where is that start view? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

To the southeast of Llanrothal. Llanrothal is the small village you can see to the northwest of the cross. If you'd followed my instruction to click on the bing map thing with labels on the left and zoom out you'd see the places labelled..♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:25, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Tut tut. Silly me. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

That looks like it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Spot on. It's not really "in" Llanrothal at all. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:36, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Nearer Welsh Newton!♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:57, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, much. You might also like to know that the next property along the road, towards Welsh Newton, and which looks a lot like a late Victorian vicarage, is called "The Nunnery". Martinevans123 (talk) 23:03, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Hilston Park

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Fortunately, I think most of the errors I introduced into that article were corrected by Ghm! But still plenty of red links left to hunt down. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:28, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
If they're notable....!! Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:59, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
I've got to get to my 38,000 articles somehow !! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:27, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


What do you think about the suggestion of setting St Swithin's up as its own article? I think we could still gather enough for Ganarew village. Do you know a house called Sallersbrook - the image in Commons looks interesting.

Sallersbrook, near Ganarew - - 1205638.jpg

Pevsner gives it a small mention. KJP1 (talk) 11:31, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't know Sallersbrooke at all, but drove past it on my way to Lewstone - in fact, I think it may be in Lewstone as opposed to Ganarew. The house itself is tucked away, but it's obvious that one is driving past quite a grand estate. There are very old farm buiildings up the road at Lewstone - I'm surprised some if them are not listed. Your plan for Ganarew sounds very ambitous! But I'm sure there's more that could be added about Vortigen. And thanks for your attention to detail here. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
I think it's the Doward Hotel from BLBO, the description certainly sounds right. "c1800, altered C20 Painted brick, C20 tiled roof. Sash windows throughout, C20 bow window extension on ground floor to right of entrance; Tuscan portico, plain fanlight and C20 6 panelled door." But it's not a hotel anymore, at least not one I can find on Google. I'll ask User talk:Rosiestep to take St Swithin to its own page and then we can play around adding to Ganarew. The cave looks superbly spooky! KJP1 (talk) 13:52, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Certainly no longer a hotel (but I guess the cave would be cheaper). Quite happy to put St Swithin on its own. But I'd like to get the bottom of "St Luke`s". Martinevans123 (talk) 14:03, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
These are of Lewstone:

Farm house at Lewstone - - 1205652.jpg Cider Press - - 1205601.jpg. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:59, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Nominated for DYK and presumably for Monmouthpedia.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:36, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks, "Blowers". I don't keep very close track of these things, but it's useful if only to advertise to others what one is interested in. Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:01, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

William Burges

You've hit upon my other passion! Aside from Monmouthpedia and anything vaguely Monmouthshire in the architecture field. Many thanks for your help - one day (soon) we'll try this for FA. Ganarew is looking great, I thought I'd need to add when the church moved but you've done it already. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 21:26, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

You can thank Rosiestep for her wonderful efforts at Ganarew. I have visted Castell Coch only once, whilst still a very young schoolboy - that single experience will stay with me for the rest of my life. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:32, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
"Personal life: but where is it?". In what sense? Do you think there's not enough? He's a little documented architect and there's little available as to what made him tick. Beyond drink, opium, ratting, chatting and architecture. Not sure there's much more to add. KJP1 (talk) 21:35, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
No, just that picture - "Burges as architect, by Edward John Poynter" - where is it?! Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
"that single experience will stay with me for the rest of my life." I felt like that when I first saw his work, as a schoolboy, at Cardiff Castle. He is truly amazing. That's why he deserves an FA. KJP1 (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Totally and utterly agree. Second only to William Morris in my book. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
"Second only to William Morris"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now you're just trying to wind me up. The picture is "a photograph of a painting of William Burges, dressed as an architect. The painting appears in a panel of the Yatman Cabinet designed by Burges, and was painted by artist Edward John Poynter. It dates from 1858. The cabinet is in the collection of the Victoria and Albert Museum in London." OK, you prefer Morris if you must. KJP1 (talk) 22:02, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm so pleased that architecture is such a dispassionate subject, aren't you. Someone has to design wallpaper, you know, haha! Maybe a date and a link to the V&A in the caption? (Someone has to tidy the links in image captions, you know, haha). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:07, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
But the links are great. Burges designs a brooch as a wedding present for John Pollard Seddon, who works with John Prichard, who designs the Church of St Swithin, Ganarew. Perfect. KJP1 (talk) 22:13, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
That's just amazing. You've just summed up for me what this project is all about. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

It is so good to see other people on here know exactly how to build wikipedia and what it is truly about and that contrary to the thoughts of many, the site is not about who lectures and scolds or blocks the most individuals. The chain link article creation thing is in my opinion the best way yo build wikipedia and often turns up some highly interesting connections. To create an article create a red link, blue link it and create further red links etc it definitely the best way.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:04, 26 March 2012 (UTC) Nominated with King Arthur's Cave ‎ .♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:03, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Blowers, that is just incredible! You are the epitome of what Wikipedia should be about! One tiny wave of Merlins Magic Wand and within the hour a superb new article appears. Superb. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:11, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! We could also fit an article on The Doward in. Probably Little and Great Doward could be redirected into it with a summary of each hamlet. The Doward appears to be a historical wooded area as a whole and appears to have a lot that could be written. I might look at that tomorrow.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:16, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure you are right. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

"quite a big mirror"

On reflection, that could shed light on the development of Pamela Anderson's problem.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:37, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

"And ya don't get many ghosts as "well racked" as that" (as our dear American cousins migbt say). I'm heartily reminded of that old Yankee folk tune "Wet T-Shirt Night", sung in such a spirited manner by that very engaging Mr Zappa (God rest his soul)! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
I think it's true to say that Ms Anderson received more than her Portion Controlled Serving... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:47, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Haha, rofl! (yet again, "sob") Martinevans123 (talk) 18:49, 26 March 2012 (UTC)


Wasn't sure if to post here or my talk page, so I chose here! Anyway, yeah I just did a manual archive :) it's no big deal, I just saw the topics were pretty stale (~1 month) and thought, "Why not?" but it's easily challenged without issue, so feel free to revert if you wish :) --Τασουλα (talk) 15:41, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Τασουλα. I'm never too sure how to say your user name! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:03, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
No problem! And it's Greek origin and I have no idea how to pronounce it either! and my former nickname here of Nutthida is a Thai name, :) --Τασουλα (talk) 22:39, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Tassoola! Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:32, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Llanrothal

The DYK project (nominate) 01:46, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Henry Milbourne

The DYK project (nominate) 01:47, 27 March 2012 (UTC)


[7]...That's funny! "Are you a corrupt politician...or am I being redundant"...of course! Are there any other kind? Nice.--MONGO 02:23, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Poor Hgh is still having a hard time, I'm sorry to see. I keep trying to get people to see the funny side, but I know that's hard when you're embroiled like that. I'm sure Wikipedans are far superior compared with politicians, aren't they. I mean, they're never after your vote, are they, haha!? And poor Jimbo - he never gets any votes and someimes, it seems, he has a very tough job to do, as presumed final referee to a million edit disputes. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:21, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Machen image

So, you've finally inspired lazy me to upload an image of Machen with a fair-use rationale and put it in the infobox. Let's see if it sticks. Deor (talk) 14:31, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me, that's marvelous. And I do hope it does stick, because it makes the article look 100% better (although I do love my decoration)! What a superb image. I'm sure you'll soon find the dustjackets too, for all those book articles, haha (I might even be able to find one or two myself). I wonder if Pwimageglow could be persuaded to nip over to Caerleon with his camera again, to get one of the blue plaque! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi Martin, the Daily Mail story got this wrong. There is no appeal at the moment (there is a submission to the CCRC asking for an appeal). I think they mixed up a new report with one several years old from his previous appeal. Anyway, this is the story from the Guardian. [8] Cheers, SlimVirgin (talk) 20:28, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks, SV. I'm glad that someone was watching, and guess what - I had hoped it might be you (from the edit history there)! I must admit I was a bit surprised that only the Daily Snail had reported this. I must keep reminding myself, in future, to appropriately "respect" their journalistic standards. Crumbs, what rubbbish, it seems. Where did "on the sixth day" come from? that sounds quite definite. But does the comment in the Guardian article warrant an addition/ new section? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:42, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
("Daily Snail" - haven't heard that one before. I like Daily Misery myself, in acknowledgement of their joyous outlook on just about everything....) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:01, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Did someone mention DIANA!!! now that was a TRAGEDY! and VERY VERY suspicious... if we could just go on and on about it, ad infinitum, into the next millenium maybe, etc etc .....? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:06, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
One must remember - those poor readers who occupy the upper socio-economic groups of one of the richest countries in the world, they like to be assured that life is indeed awful.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:16, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I am guessing that a reporter not familiar with the case was asked to write a story about the latest evidence. He pulled up material from the files about "Jeremy Bamber appeal" and got stories about his last appeal in 2002 mixed up with this new report from Bamber's lawyers. As for where day six came from, I have no idea.
I got a fright myself when I read your edit because I've been following this story closely, and for a split second thought, "oh my god, not only has an appeal been allowed, but it's in its sixth day! How could I have missed this?" :D SlimVirgin (talk) 21:31, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Haha, double-take time. Not sure if that's the "power of the media", or the "power of wikipedia", or just a shared wiki-consciousness taking over! Our paths have not crossed SV, for quite a while now. Was it some music article? Sorry, I can't remember. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:38, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't remember where it was, Martin, but it's nice to see you again anyway. :) SlimVirgin (talk) 22:06, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


Here's a puzzle. I've given some details on the above page about Pen-y-Clawdd Court and listed it as a Grade I Listed building in Monmouthshire. But I now think the details I've quoted refer to another Pen-y-Clawdd Court. My doubts arise from, firstly the fact that RCAHMW lists Pen-y-Clawdd Court as being in the parish of Llanvihangel Crucorney, which plainly the Court between Raglan and Monmouth isn't, and, secondly, because the description in RCAHMW, and the pictures from a link I've found here [[9]], don't look at all like the Pen-y-Clawdd Court I photographed a few weekends ago. But Newman's Monmouthshire only lists one Pen-y-Clawdd Court and his description "notable only for the nobly scaled red brick arch close up to the road" definitely does match the house I photographed, the pictures of which I was going to upload until I got cold feet.

So, I think there are actually two Pen-y-Clawdd Courts. But why does Newman not list the one near Abergavenny, which looks much more interesting and which I think is Grade I, but does list the one near Raglan which he acknowledges is only notable for its gate? If you're as stumped as I, do you think Dr B or Ghmyrtle might know? KJP1 (talk) 18:27, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Intriguing. Very surprised. Would Bradney help I wonder - I dont have access to the volume that might have it (or them). It seems Hando wrote an Argus article on Pen-y-Clawdd on 30-8-57, but not sure which one. If Ghmyrtle doesn't know, he'll probably have some good ideas about how to find out. But then DrB is quite likely to take it on as a personal challenge and write two or three new articles as a result! I'll try and have a look too. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:41, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Either result would be good. So I'll go and ask. But would appreciate any digging you could do. Best regards. KJP1 (talk) 19:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
User talk:Ghmyrtle has the answer. Now some work to do. KJP1 (talk) 21:58, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


"What was supposed to be conveyed by" those images? Only one, very unencylcopaedic, word springs to mind - beauty. I do like that. Sometimes I think we struggle to get that concept across. But we keep trying. KJP1 (talk) 22:40, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Excuse my while I nail this butterfly to its display mount.... don't what the pesky thing flying off again, do we! Martinevans123 (talk) 07:28, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Pill and pwll

"Pill" is a widely used term on the English side of the Bristol Channel for a tidal creek - e.g. at Pill, Huntspill, etc. It's almost certainly related to the Welsh "pwll", but I'm not sure we can say it derives from the Welsh word - they probably both derive from an earlier Celtic word. St Pierre Pill could have been (in fact, was probably more likely to have been) so named by the perfidious English in the estuary, rather than by the Welsh who had retreated westwards and hillwards by the time it was named. There is a theory that the "pool" in Liverpool derives from the same word. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks, yes that makes a lot of sense. I'll revert that. Should Pwllgwenlly also be amended? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Well, there needs to be some regard for consistency. The article on Pillgwenlly refers to a Welsh word "pill", which I don't think is correct - it was pwll. But that place, and other places in areas that were unequivocally Welsh, would have originally had Welsh (or proto-Welsh) names - it's just that I think that it's an overstatement to say that places where the name could have derived from either Welsh or English words, necessarily derived from the Welsh term. In the case of St Pierre as well, it's completely unclear as to whether the name derived from a Welsh Pŷr or a Norman Pierre. It may well, in fact, have been the site of the semi-legendary Welsh harbour Porth-is-coed, later renamed by the post-Norman English. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:43, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
That all makes sense to me, Gh. If any place might get a clear etymology maybe it's this place, but things were a lot less clear in Gwent, weren't they? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:10, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Hereford Cathedral Library

Orlady (talk) 16:03, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Ganarew

The DYK project (nominate) 09:33, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for King Arthur's Cave

The DYK project (nominate) 17:19, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Preston Passion

Hi, thanks for working to improve Preston Passion with me; I edit conflicted with you more than once! Want to co-nom it for DYK with me?, I just expanded it so it fits in the size rules. Rcsprinter (lecture) 20:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

No worries. I found it a superb piece of television and quite inspirational. So go ahead, by all means. Perhaps we could add a tv programme info box? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Great, I filed it. Rcsprinter (constabulary) 17:14, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Ok. Looks like the Development Producer himself has lent us a hand here! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:52, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Really? I'll check it out. Wasn't logged in because I was editing from an iPad in an Apple store demo thingy. (Yep, dedication). Here is a link to the DYK nom, I put your name on it. Rcsprinter (constabulary) 17:14, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Haha, very good. Many thanks. I have added another ALT hook! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Saint Senara

Hehe I looked at the Pendour Cove article and you edited it! We must be telepathic or just share very similar interests!♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I blame the mystic cod! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:17, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Equally strange is that I was thinking about The Doward but decided to do that first! Will start shortly..♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:21, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
"Cod moves in mysterious ways, its wikiwonders to perform." (old Lancashire saying). Martinevans123 (talk) 12:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Goodness me, we've even got Haddock House now!! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:29, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

You may wish to add to The Doward.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:32, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Tredegar House

Can't understand why the unnamed one is being quite so aggressive. Perfectly reasonable debate but don't get why he takes it personally. Somewhat like you, I lived in Monmouthshire from age 5 to age 18 and never once thought I was living in Gwent! And what has gone wrong with Reflinks. It was so good. KJP1 (talk) 21:35, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes strange. The 'Port has never even felt like a city to me, let alone a Unitary Authority! But Mr. Anon has legal factitude on his or her side, I fear. The small Welsh town of... Twinned with Guangxi Province in China - There's no Province finer: [10] Lush. I loves it. Safe, bro! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:44, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Oh that's very good. The number of times I rolled into Newport Station on a wet, cold night. But indeed, Mr Anon is "right". However, it was built in Monmouthshire, it's helpful and sensible to list it in Monmouthshire, and I doubt the decidedly exotic Evan Morgan, 2nd Viscount Tredegar would have been much impressed to be told he was residing in the unitary authority area of Newport. So we'll leave it as long as we can. KJP1 (talk) 21:54, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
I think I'll stay out of this one, on that article talk page at least. The fact is that it is in Newport, which is how most readers (globally) would locate it. Whether we need to add that it is/was in "Monmouthshire" seems pretty irrelevant to me (though obviously of vital importance to some!), and I think we should ensure that no-one gains the false impression that it is located in Monmouthshire. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:25, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
I too was tempted to stay out. People can get very worked up about counties, especially as far as Lancashire, Manchester and Liverpool are concerned, for example! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:36, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
I think we've teased him enough - and it's right now, in every sense. KJP1 (talk) 22:32, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Quite agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:37, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, knocked twice

Hi, [11] considering intro plus your addition were much better than the current version. After texts that can be found the account seems to have been about a concrete experiment after which the author simply derived the idea of the engine. --Askedonty (talk) 22:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Haha, I had forgotten that I had even made that edit. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:31, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes; wouldn't be it possible, considering the evolution of expression, as well as the Marquess' own personality, that a Century was intended meaning for a hundreth ? I wonder -- Askedonty (talk) 09:53, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, possibly. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:57, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
What he patented with parliament must have been one sort of a coupled axe wheel, this was built. Nonetheless a priority dispute between Denis Papin and Thomas Savery was once settled in France by refering to Worcester ( This wouldn't be allowed to happening again I guess. Thank you very much for your time (and editing space), this has been very encouraging. --Askedonty (talk) 19:13, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
You are very welcome. I wish my French was good enough to understand what was being described there! Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:52, 14 April 2012 (UTC)


I thought you might be watching! Actually I didn't mean to remove the TH entry, that was a consequence of an edit conflict I think. Though I did wonder if he should be listed there, seeing as he's mentioned elsewhere in the article. What's normal policy? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:30, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

If I were you, I'd remove most of the last few sections and just paste in one of his poems. But that may not be normal policy? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:40, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Only one? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Haha. There's one that's particularly apt for tonight, of all nights. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:52, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
There's a student essay on the web about that poem, I like the essay's summary line: "The poem, obviously, isn't about a nice event, hence there are a lot of references to death." Give them a spot on Newsnight Review - might make it less like that Fry and Laurie sketch.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:05, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Eat your heart out, Jeremy Paxman. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:28, 14 April 2012 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Martinevans123. You have new messages at Gareth Griffith-Jones's talk page.
Message added 11:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Were you trying to see how long it would be before I found this. You hid it rather well. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 11:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Capital of Bolivia

OK both can be in the info box but La Paz has to be like SEAT OF GOVERMENT or GOVERMENT CITY that is the right term used in bolivia,oh and excuse me can you tell me where are you from??? By:Carloshistory — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carloshistory (talkcontribs) 19:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I am from not Bolivia. And I must admit that I'm not sure what the WP:MOS is for country info boxes - it might have to be just one city as capital. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Fantastic Not Bolivia lol, I live in the Wirral if I was mad I could even run to Wales when the tides out, my cousin did it once (lying sod he is) anyway suffice it to say unlucky for us he came back sigh

(... in deep broad Tennessee accent ...) Ah, yes the Wire-all. Ain't that the lil' ole capital of Scouseland? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

The Doward

Next Saturday in Monmouth? Victuallers (talk) 20:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for invite Victs. It seems unlikely, but you never know. It should be a good meeting. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:44, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for The Doward

The DYK project (nominate) 01:35, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

You have anything on Velindre House in Whitchurch, Cardiff?♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:25, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Not really. But I see this snippet [12] and this one. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Preston Passion

The Bushranger One ping only 00:06, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Preston Passion

It all sounds wonderful! I wish I had been there to see it. My Easter was rather tame by comparison. Congrats on the DYK! Amandajm (talk) 09:59, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I'm not a huge fan of this type of live music/ filmed drama mix, and no live outside broadcast can ever be perfect. But I think this worked really well. My main disappointment was that Jamelia and band were incarcerated on the brutal 60s mausoleum that is the Bus Station car park. But the aerial camera for the movement pieces was a touch of genius. Well done Preston Guild - the programme was well worth doing and was done very well. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:12, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
(But I was the one who actually created the article.) Rcsprinter (tell me stuff) 12:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, you certainly were. I don't really deserve that DYK. I would never have even thought of creating it. But I'm still glad of Amanda's contribution. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:57, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Titanic Sea Odyssey

There is a whole set on Commons with this image. I'm biased as I took most of them so I'll leave the choice to you.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 23:02, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

That's the sort of event that might well deserve its own article. My concern with that image is that the diver gets a bit lost in the crowd and street furniture, especially as it looks a bit of a dull day in Liverpool (!) I'll have a look. Thanks for the tip off. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:55, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
It was a dull day. It's just finished now. Sea Odyssey on COmmons.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 12:50, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
A fine collection. I thought (20) was very good, but I have added (13). Where did the uncle eventually find the little girl? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:59, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
I just uploaded them all crap or otherwise. If someone want to delete some it's fine by me. Down by the Docks last night. I'm trying to get some people to upload there photos. So it might be worth checking later. You basically had to pick you place to stand and hold it. As soon as I can work out how to convert this I'll up load it Film.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 13:13, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that would be good. Wikipedia looks like it's in the Stone Age when it comes to the use of video clips. And indiscriminately banning all YouTube links doesn't really help. So good luck with that. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:26, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Thatwas easier than last time I tried, using Make Web Video
. Just do this to see if it links.-- (talk) 14:06, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Very good, well done. Certainly big enough isn't it!! Martinevans123 (talk)
Estimates are 1/4 Million came to watch. Liverpool echo --Kitchen Knife (talk) 14:30, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
That suggests an article might well be justufied. Martinevans123 (talk)
It probably is have a look at this Merseyside Police vid--Kitchen Knife (talk) 16:07, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Amazing. Love the dog!! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:17, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Aparently 1/2 a Million turned up. BB1 7.30 on Wednesday has a special on it.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 12:33, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Kitten in a helmet.jpg


Twinmill32 (talk) 00:53, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I wonder where the other pesky blighters are lurking.... Martinevans123 (talk) 08:57, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Choco chip cookie.png WTF? Twinmill32 (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Whooooo! it's tonight's star prize! (visions of a besuited Nicholas Parsons with Sale of the Century music playing in the background... ) I just wish I knew what these were for, or who they were from. At least not from one of 65,000 random ip addresses in Wochita, maybe... Martinevans123 (talk) 09:03, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


Hi Martin,

I am working on Cnapan and if my findings prove correct I will have important information to contribute to the games origins. (Adrian Roebuck (talk) 11:11, 23 April 2012 (UTC))

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Humour Hires.png The Barnstar of Good Humor
This quip deserves some appreciation
Best Wishes Ankh.Morpork 23:04, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Glad someone appreciated. Although I was trying to make the point that someone's life might be more important than a wikipedia regulation. But apparently, some editors "need to reconsider their black humour thresholds at ANI." I was surprised not to get blocked myself. What next - WP:NOTTHESAMARITANS, I guess. Pleased to see that someone at least left a message. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:41, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello Martin,
one more act of vandalism, and it's over
I have just been over to have a look.
You are awful –
or, is it I, who is filled with awe?
When I read your "block", I was sorely tempted to add "where's the axe?"
Then I clicked on the link.
Anyway, I love this:
-- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 08:38, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Just tweaking the size of your wiki gallows here. We all know good editors can always re-grow the limbs that have been delicately torn off by dedicated admins. Wheresas true vandals can't, apparently. But where's our hangman broomstick? After all, the only good witch is a drowned one (?) The Venn diagram of ANI/ mental health/ humour shows a very small area of intereection indeed, it seems. Being blocked isn't a very pleasant experience and it's a shame that Wikipedia soemtimes appears to be such a punitive two-tier organisaction. Let's hope our anon Spanish editor was just a vandal. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:01, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I hope so too. I realise only now that I had taken it entirely the opposite way to you. Did you notice that Delta Quad has since modified his entry by removing his link to WP:ROPE)
I like the organisaction, but not too certain about the intereection ... I corrected my appalling English, BTW
-- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 14:03, 24 April 2012 (UTC)→
Yes, DQ is obviously a genuinely concerned and careful editor. I think his was a slip. Mine was quite deliberate, but misintrepreted. My concern was for the anon Spanish editor, not for the politically-correct established ANI reader. Thumperward is right about thresholds, I guess, but he too seems to think I was being deliberately callous towards the Spanish anon, and not just trying to poke fun at wikipedia. One's frame of reference can certainly influence one's interpretation. I had tried to suggest in my edit summary that a "softly-softly" approach might be better. Then again, I thought, that poor editor might have been on tip-toes himself, balanced on his wobbly wiki block. Maybe something (or a lot) has been lost in translation here. Some folk will post all sorts of strange thinks on the net just to see what the reaction will be (apparently). Martinevans123 (talk) 15:10, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Tommy Cooper

See his Talk page; it's always better to have edit conversations on the article Talk page, so others can participate. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 11:52, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Have replied there, thanks. "Darn these hooves! I hit the wrong switch again! Who designs these instrument panels, raccoons?" [13] Martinevans123 (talk) 12:34, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I think it was you ... "Her Majesty's Pembrokeshire corgis" ..?

BTW, did I ever tell you that my first dog, my eighth birthday present, was a Pembrokeshire Corgi – just like Her Majesty's ...

Cheers! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 17:14, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi Gareth. I think you must be confusing me with another well-known Welshman! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:43, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Take a visit to my page! Have a look at Buon compleanno -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 21:42, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Arh bless! That Betty gets everywhere. If only she could keep that bull terrier of a daughter under control: [14]! But Happy Birthdsy - I hope not yet a telegram-from-Betty occasion! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Did you go to the sender's page – in Tasmania? You can understand how baffled I am. I thought I had worked out the first (Beatles) only to learn I that I hadn't. Then, I came to the conclusion the second was you, wrongly. I am baffled. Telegram? ... give it another thirty -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 23:17, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
All very confusing! I'll take a look down under. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:19, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Newport Rising

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Martinevans123. You have new messages at Mrjohncummings's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Electric strings

I once drew a picture of an invented "electric cello" as part of the front cover of a school musical project, but the teacher wasn't very impressed with my flight of fancy - he described the cover as "infantile". But then, I did portray the cello being played by several anthropomorphic "wild marrows"..... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:08, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

We all know about The Comedy of Marrows. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:12, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Haha, very good! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:30, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Argh, you and your French corner plants!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
You're not pla-yeeng weeth wurrds are you, Monsieur Evans? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:06, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
I weel say zees ahnlee warnce. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:19, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Are you serious when you state "No more Throw Away humour", or is that part of the joke? It isn't clear. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 05:38, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
ROFL. I'll try and find a reliable sauce. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:22, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
That doesn't make anything clearer. I suspect you're pissed off for some reason, but being evasive (or cryptic?) doesn't convey what that might be. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:43, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your concern PCW. But no more pissed off than usual, haha! And I tend to use this Talk Page for being as cryptic and unclear as possible. It's my little refuge from reliable sources and notability. How is sunny Dorset? My word you were up early (or was that very late?) Martinevans123 (talk) 07:49, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Church of Saint Senara, Zennor

Hello, Sorry for the delay but I have now replied to your query at Talk:Church of Saint Senara, Zennor. (I often do not take a second look at pages edited until some days have passed.)--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:58, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks Felix. I thought you'd probably reply before the secession of Cornwall had been fully achieved. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:18, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Historic architecture

I probably shouldn't laugh, but this page amused me this morning. Maybe the photo doesn't convey its special qualities very well.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:48, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Haha. Maybe you missed the whole Peter Vardy Grade II listed church RFD fiasco. Architectural heritage means very different things to different people in different places. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:55, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, you're right - and appearance doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it either. Often buildings are listed for being 'good examples' of their type, which can be controversial (eg Park Hill). But that American pic does remind me of certain bits of 1970s UK suburbia - obviously over the pond they were 70 years ahead of us! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:29, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Haha. True. 70 years ahead - real progress, I'm sure. We also have some architectural icons to cherish. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:42, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Your last edit summary reminds me of a tale concerning T. S. Eliot, who once got into a cab to find that the cabbie knew who he was. When asked how he knew he replied, "Ah, I've got an eye for a celebrity. Only the other evening I picked up Bertrand Russell, and I said to him: 'Well Lord Russell, what's it all about?, and do you know, he couldn't tell me.'" Kenny Williams (more circularity) loved recounting this, making it juicier by changing the last line to, 'Do you know, the twit couldn't tell me?' (from The Kenneth Williams Diaries, p665) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:01, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Hahahaha, that is just so funny. You never get a decent tip out of those logical positivists, I reckon. But they'll often treat you to nice cuppa Rosie Lee. (A bit like the infamously frugal Tommy Cooper who would always pay the exact cab fare but then slip something into the cabbie's top pocket with the words "have a drink on me" - later discovered to be a teabag). Martinevans123 (talk) 07:26, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

St Athan

Want to collaborate with this? More info on the landmarks at here and here. Will add more tomorrow.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:36, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Goodness me, Blowers, this is hardly one of your Holiday Inns in Kazakstan one-liners, is it?! It looks huge already! I'll try and have a look tomorrow. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Hello Doctor,
Thank you for asking me to be involved. I shall certainly try to help as I do know St Athan. Actually this Castleton is in the Vale of Glamorgan. MyCastleton is in what I still call Monmouthshire. But, no matter. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 00:01, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Hang on ... I'm not even a doctor!! And with all these Castletons, we might even forget about this place! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:26, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Mmm ... does this place have any connection with the good and chaste people living in The Cotswolds, do you think? -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 09:13, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
This blog-site [15] (which has a very nice collection of copy-vio NT images) says this: "The name Chastleton is Saxon in origin, and the last bit is easy as tun means town, or habitation enclosed by a fence. The second bit probably means a heap of stones or cairn from the Saxon word ceastel. It's really near to the Rollright Stones ..". Martinevans123 (talk) 09:41, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Ties in with this,, slightly more reliable, source [16], which says: "The recorded history of Chastleton manor dates back to 777AD, when Offa, King of Mercia, made a gift of land at Chastleton to the Benedictine abbey of Eynsham in Worcestershire. The name Chastleton is Saxon in origin, the prefix possibly deriving from the Saxon word ceastel, which may refer to a cairn or boundary marker.
The suffix ‘ton’ derives from tun or town. The village appears in the Domesday Book of 1086 as ‘Cestitone’, when the landowners included Odo, Bishop of Bayeux, Winchcombe Abbey, Henry de Ferrers and Urse D’Abitot. During the Middle Ages, Chastleton was owned and administered by, amongst others, Robert d’Oily (the probable builder of Oxford Castle) and Thomas Chaucer (son of the poet).". Martinevans123 (talk) 09:53, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
It has quite a history. First century AD ... this is the wonder of WP -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 10:34, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Newport, Cardiff and London

Hi Martin, you were looking for other editors who may have views on this controversy. Can I suggest User:Snowded, User:Bettia, User:FruitMonkey, User:Velella, User:Deb and User:Seth Whales? All are long-standing, highly-reputable editors who've been active on Wikiproject Wales. They won't necessarily support my views but they would offer rational opinion.--Pondle (talk) 23:21, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks. I have now passed on the message to all of them too. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:23, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I've flagged up the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements. It's not necessarily a Wales-only issue, though obviously some editors of Wales articles might have particular interests on the matter. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:25, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

You might get a kick out of this ... helps to prove that reading is FUN-damental ...

I heard about this item [17] today and thought it was just too funny for words. "I knew that there was a reason that I paid attention in geography class."

The stadium announcer was 'on the ball' ... -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 16:43, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Haha, yes, I heard about it a few days ago. Just wonderful. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Clement Vallandigham

Well, the only reason he was in the unusual deaths was the supposition that he shot hmself in front of the judge/jury and died instantly - shooting yourself accidentally with a gun while demonstrating something isn't that unusual, especially since the main article also makes it sound like he died some time later. But you're right, there's no check-able source for either variant, and if he did shoot himself in the courtroom then it would certainly belong. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 21:32, 24 May 2012 (UTC).

This source ([[18]]) says "While preparing the defense of an accused murderer, Vallandigham enacted his view of what occurred at the crime scene. Thinking that a pistol that he was using as a prop was unloaded, Vallandigham pointed it at himself and pulled the trigger. The gun discharged, and Vallandigham was mortally wounded. This one [19] says "In a Lebanon, Ohio, hotel, 16 June 1871, a gun went off while he was demonstrating to other attorneys how a defendant's supposed victim may have accidentally shot himself. He died there the following day." Brittanica [20] is vague. I would say these descriptions of his death make him a borderline for includsion in this (very subjective) untimely death article. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 21:36, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks for the swift reply, David. Some excellent sources there. I'd argue that having a complete article already makes him notable and this tips the balance in his favour for inclusion. I'm not sure where QI got it's duff gen, but that BBC mention in itself seems to add some weight to its notability (validation nothwithstanding). In fact, I clearly remember watching that episode of QI, and I expect that it will soon be repeated, ad infinitum, on Dave. But of course I can't remember the exact wording. I suspect any error is far more likely to have been caused by some ad-lib embroidery/ tongue slipping from quizmaster Mr. Fry! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:50, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for St Athan

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Patchen music adaptation

Your recent addition to the music section doesn't quite make sense. Are there particular poems by Patchen that you're referring to? If so, I would list the poems specifically.Jpcohen (talk) 00:56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I think the word "the" should have been "a". But your re-write is perfectly fine. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:30, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Jewish Princess

HI with your reference to ittle jewsess princess I thought you would get the cryptic? message "with a brand new nose, who knows where it goes" Im new to wiki I cannot even write a message without editing a page :( take care btw those questions were great

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ur-loki (talkcontribs) 10:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Haha, yes I did get it, eventually. So I added a lyric reference at your Talk Page! If you want to post a message - just start a new Section. Many editors would have a fit if some unknown new editor added a comment to their User Page without permission (especially those editors who are "cantankerous old crows without any sense of humour". But as a fellow FZ fan - you're very welcome! haha

Old St John the Baptist's Church, Pilling

(Discussion moved from Tin tabernacles) Yes that's the one — more info here, and map + grid reference on here. Cheers. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 11:29, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Peter. Have just returned from a very fruitful trip to Pilling, where we managed to obtain a key and take lots of pictures. There was also a short guide booklet available for a donation of £3, and some fact-sheets printed up by the CCT. It's quite fascinating. The keyholder was also able to give us a short history - it is in fact the third Anglican church in the village. That gentleman's father was in fact responsible, as church-warden, for handing the church over to the CCT. Anyway, I'm wondering if you'd like to see any or all of the 40 pictures I have taken? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:00, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, sounds like enjoyed your outing. What I want (need) is a good picture of the exterior of the church in the article and the list. Beyond that, it's up to you. As a suggestion, why not upload the best photos to Commons (make them free-use of course), and they will be available for the world to see and use (if you're happy with that), and I can see them there. Let me know when/if you've done that. Cheers. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 16:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I usually upload to Commons, as it's much quicker for a batch of multiple images. And I do try to select the best single example of any particular feature. It's just that there are lots of unique features in this church! I'll probably end up posting a dozen or so on the article talk page, but I am wary of taking up too much space. I might even try and add to the article using the booklet as a ref... but paying particular attention to Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing and being extremely careful not to ever unwittingly breach copyright (just in case someone decides to not revert within a few hours). Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:52, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
The talk page is not the best place for the pics. I suggest that you upload them to Commons, make a Category to contain them, then make a link on the article page using {{commons category|Old St John the Baptist's Church, Pilling}} in an External links section. There can be no breach of copyright if you make them free use. If you get stuck, I'll try to help. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 19:45, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
I've added the "full frontal" photo to the article and the list. It looks great. Many thanks, --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 19:54, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
You can't beat a bit of full frontal, I always say. I'll try and do as you suggest. The three uploaded so far are still uncategorised, so advice on any other categories to use at Commons would be much appreciated. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Excellent set of photos; many thanks. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 16:21, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, I have been very selective. I was disappointed with the photos of the 1719 boards bearing the Ten Commandments and the Creed and Lords Prayer. They would have benefited from a flash, or a duller day or (obviously) a much better camera than my pocket FinePix J12. I'm hoping to expand the article and perhaps that might warrant the inclusion of one or two of the interior images. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:50, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Rufford Hall

The very knowleagable guides will tell you that the screen is made of bog oak. It also has a carving of a six-fingered hand, reputed to represent Anne Boleyn. Plucas58 (talk) 20:48, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

No, I don't Plucas58 (talk) 22:45, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


Wasn't my intention to delete your post not sure how it even happened, I got an edit conflict and just re saved. Mo ainm~Talk 20:25, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Apology accepted. No worries. It just didn't look very good. I'm sorry you and Varlaam have disagreed. Londonderry/Derry is problematic for many. I just don't see that the mini-dispute, or Varlaam's comments, is representative of such an industrous editor, nor deserving of such punitive measures. A 60-hour general block may be perfectly suitable from your point of view. But, in the longer term, will it be as productive as trying to encourage a dialogue? Skinner had a point. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
The block is not my doing, that's down to the admin, I was attempting dialogue on the talk page but he choose to be pedantic about spelling and to issue personal attacks and to revert after I warned him about 3 RR. Mo ainm~Talk 21:09, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Quite so, obviously not your doing. It looks like a rather hasty one-sided solution that neither party may necessarily have wanted. You appear to have been wholly civil. And you were quite right to warn. I'm sure that Admin, who almost shares a name with another leading behaviourst, has his reasons - even if he can't (or apparently just won't bother to) count. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:21, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Tewkesbury Abbey

Do I understand correctly that you agree the new section on photography is advertisement but because it is useful it belongs in an encyclopedia? As I said on the talk page I reject this notion and additionally offered that the copyright question needs to be addressed. Your suggestion of a note on all National Trust properties seems excessive, however, if such a note were to be placed anywhere it should only be placed on the organisation's article if it is a common and legal policy.

I think courtesy if not protocol would of had you discuss this issue before RVing a RV. Saffron Blaze (talk) 21:18, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Sincere apologies for not opening a discussion thread for my partial revert of your own. I certainly think that a whole new section, advertising guided tours and photographic policy, has no place in that article. But I think a note regarding the Abbey's poilcy on photography would certainly be useful, if only as a footnote. If you think this is contentious, I'd be pleased to contribute to a discussion at the Talk Page.
Regarding my edit summary suggestion, you are quite right, the National Trust article might be much better and easier. It certainly is a "common and legal policy" that most of Wikipedia seems very keen to disregard. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:37, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Um, how does one leave a Talkback template on your "Talk Page"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll check on the legal issue. As a photgrapher I find this practice quite irritating... pay for pics but you don't get full rights. If it is legal no pictures of inside the Abbey would be permitted on Wikipedi/Commons because you would not be able to licence freely. Saffron Blaze (talk) 00:12, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, and the NT policy is very irritating. But then it is a commercial organisation, like any other, I suppose. An exchange of emails a couple of year ago confirmed that images may be taken of NT property only from a standpoint on publicly-accessed land. They also told me they were "in dispute" with Wikipeida over the use of certain images. I can't imagine that their policy has changed since then. They did tell me, however, that they would not pursue the removal of any images that I personally had already loaded to Wikipeida, provided that I undertook not to load any more. I do wish some more useful compromise could be reached.
I suspect that those who read articles on NT properties here, with the intention of visiting, often never also read the NT article itself, and thus remain unaware of their photography policy. See this POTD, for example: [Gawthorpe_Hall#File:Gawthorpe new.jpg to appear as POTD soon] Martinevans123 (talk) 07:41, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

The Spanners

Hello old boy! Yes, I'm afraid unless it's an "official" type of channel we can't link to it - dashed shame. A brief bit of research suggests if the uploader is correct this dates from 1980-83 from the ITV Madhouse era. And yes it is that perky chap Les Dennis on the end - he worked with Russ early in his career. There's another one at [21] if you're interested! Cheers! Quintessential British Gentleman (talk) 22:25, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Country Houses

I was wondering if you or you know anybody who'd be interested in such a project. One of my chief loves is British country houses and I don't at present see a project set up to help coordinate it and to collaborate over. If interested let me know and I'll consider making a proposal.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:53, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I'd be quite interested, thanks... if only to try and get a more satisfactory situation between Wikipedia and the National Trust regarding the use in articles of personal photographs! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:11, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Zodiac Settle

You're a godsend. Tonight, the article, wikipedia, and even Burges are driving me to the very, very end of my tether!!!!!! KJP1 (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry it's such a tiny contribution. It's been a mammoth effort on your part. Am in awe. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Dingestow Court

Actually, I think the Geograph view is of the other, north, side of the court to the current photo, which is the less impressive, non-Vuillamy side. That said, and despite the fact it's a bit gloomy, it's certainly arguable that it's a better picture of the house than my absurdly distant view, which really only shows anything if much magnified. So replace away if you think on balance it's better.

Thanks for your very kind comments re. Burges. It was a struggle, particularly in the latter stages, but I am very pleased with the result. KJP1 (talk) 15:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I see, thanks. No worries. You could replace your current image with a cropped down version, so that you get rid of some of those molehills and see the house a litle clearer. Or I can try that if you like. There might even be room for two images, as they are from different viewpoints. p.s. that Charles Spencer Ricketts tomb is quite something! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Evidence of controversy over Tom Jones’ visit to the “TRNC”:

1. Petition to Boycott Celebrity Performers in Illegally Occupied Cyprus gopetition Wiki-blocked URL (petition number 38294)

2. In the press the illegal state is boasting…

3. Issue on the Cyprus Forum

4. Complaints on performer’s Facebook page

5. Debate on Topix — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:29, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for replying. As I said, if you wish to make this argument for controversy on the Talk Page for the Tom Jones (singer) article, you will need to make a user account (very quick and easy). But responding very briefly to each point of your "evidence" above:
1. We can't really see what is contained in a "Wiki-blocked URL". And so it can't be used in any article.
2. That is a factual news report that confirms that the event took place, but not that it was notable.
3. Wikipedia cannot use the content of forums or chat-sites as WP:RS.
4. Wikipedia typically does not take the content of any Facebook page as evidence of notability. In fact, Facebook in itself, is rarely used as a reliable source for anything.
5. Wikipedia cannot use the content of forums or chat-sites as WP:RS.
If you can provide any other sources, from reputable internationally recognised news agencies or news publications, you may be able to convince other editors that this event was indeed notable, or even "controversial". But, on the strength of your current suggestions, it is very unlikely that an addition to the article would be justified. How rare an event is this? Does the "Petition" you mention have any legal status? If so, where? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:51, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Hattie Jacques ASDA advert

Just to let you know, regarding your citation for the ASDA advert with her. While it might not be conclusive it was her last appearance, it will be a very welcome addition on another article (namely the ASDA one) where a source for her being in the advert was missing. So it is a conclusive source for something. Thanks! MrZoolook (talk) 04:58, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

I think The Guardian article already linked at ASDA seems fine already for HJ, but it just lacks a year. I'll add the TV Adverts ssource that I found, if you like, since it clearly gives the year as 1980. It's not really a quality source - in fact it's really just a sneaky way of getting in a link to that YouTube clip! But some of the other ASDA celebrities mentioned might well also feature at that site. Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:20, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Dylan Thomas

I give up. The article is incredibly wordy and over-detailed, but I don't feel like fighting you. I'd have to open up topics on the Talk page to discuss the content issues with you, and it's simply not worth it. In parting - and I know you've been very civil, so I'm not complaining about that - you might reconsider what is really needed in the article and what is not and think about making the article more concise. Your last restoration is, bluntly, plain silly (I don't think I'm as nice as you Face-smile.svg ), as is your basis (in your edit summary) for doing so. Good luck.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:04, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I have replied on your Talk Page. I'd like to know why both the restoration and my reason for it, that Brinnin might have been able to stop Thomas drinking himself to death and/or suffering a probable overdose of morphine, is "plain silly"? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:18, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Bec Abbey

Wikipedia, sites that copy wiki, and some tourist material are the only sites that seem to refer to it as "Bec Abbey". It is generally referred to as "the Abbey of Notre-Dame du Bec" or the "Abbey of Notre Dame of Bec-Heloin".

Amandajm (talk) 07:11, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree. How about you do it. I'm busy writing something and fussing around with pictures. Amandajm (talk) 13:12, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Having never done a move, I'm not sure that I'd do it right. I think you are probably quite right, but I would have expected some kind of global decision, from Project French Monastries or some such, so that they all got done at once and in an agreed consistent way? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:28, 2 July 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for your additions to the Thomas article. Quite a while ago an editor added a whack of detail when Fatal Neglect: Who Killed Dylan Thomas? came out proposing a new view of his death. I think it suggested a cover up etc etc. As I remember it, the ed was new, emphatic and excited. The additions did bugger about with the flow of text and I didn't go through it all to sorts through the refs and potential contradictions etc. The article hasn't been properly parsed for years, but the revised view of the death evidence introduced more of the confusion you are now ravelling. But It looks like you have it all under control. Lord preserve us from the overheated, very certain conspiracy theorist. Best wishes and happy editing. Span (talk) 20:38, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Under control?! Far from it. I have taken little interest in Dylan here, thinking that Wales' modern-day Shakespeare was all done and dusted. Now I find that none of his books even have linked publishers, let alone ISBNs. Mercy me. Yes, David Thomas' 2008 Fatal Neglect is a very worthy re-appraisal of the useless folk-lore that Dylan "drank himself to death in America", and it deserves all the attention this small article can afford it. It does seem, from his work, that 1950s medical diagnosis and procedure was light years from where it is today. The bitterest irony is that it was Dylan's own bragging that may have led most significantly to the mis-diagnosis of alcohol poisoning that, in turn, led to his coma and death. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Halifax gibbet

Thanks for your tidying up. I reverted a couple of your changes, but nothing serious. A fascinating historical backwater don't you think? Malleus Fatuorum 23:44, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Please revert all you want. Yes, incredible. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the Home Counties whose blood runs cold at the thought of such an infernal "French" device. I am just amazed that it was (apparently) unique in England. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Even most of the infernal rides at Alton Towers cost less than the modern day equivalent of one-an-three-ha'pence! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Justanonymous History

Martin. Thanks for the help on the AF447 article.

On my history. About 10 years ago, I created Wikipedia username with my real name but after making about 5 edits, I became uncomfortable having my real name out there and since then I've edited on Wikipedia on and off almost exclusively under anon IPs. In total, I probably have about 10,000edits which is pretty light for that kind of time and I'm adept at HTML and various programming languages so I can contort wikipedia to do pretty much what I need it to do. I'm pretty busy with work so I disappear for months on end though.

Recently I've decided to create a pseudonym, Justanonymous, so that I can more easily watch pages, change edit preferences etc while still protecting my anonymity. I'm finding that with a formal pseudonym this place is more social than I thought.

I do subscribe to the be bold initiative and as a middle aged guy, I'm comfortable with myself so that comes out as assertive I guess. I do worry that many good editors have been driven away by small cabals of radical editors and that's concerning to me here and that we're in need of good prudent editors. We need to be welcoming of new editors and just because they're new, we should not assume that they don't know or that we have to hold their hands, hence my response to Socrates. From my vantage, a 1 edit editor might have a PHD in that field and that edit should be respected provided it falls within the Wikipedia standards.

As full disclosure, over the last 10 years, I have been blocked exactly one time for 3 days for violating a 3R rule. I take 50% of the fault for that but sometimes people refuse to come to the talk page. I respected the block and we were able to amicably resolve the dispute amicably between my nemesis' cabal and I.

That's about it for me. Cheers! Justanonymous (talk) 13:21, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Oooo, you're the kind of newbie that makes so-called established editors like me feel quite inadequate. Yes, I know how it feels to become uncomfortable with one's real name - I ended up creating 8 new accounts to divide up my editing and pronptly got an indef block for my pains. Luckily a sensible fellow editor, and a sensible admin, came to my rescue. And I am now fully rehabilitated (well, almost). I think you must have given Socrates a bit of am bold shock! But you are obviously a useful editor to have around. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:46, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Shirenewton Hall

Might interest you.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:38, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

"Not 'arf, pop-pickers!". Many thanks, 'Blowers. Although I was looking for something a little more "bijou". Martinevans123 (talk)

Thanks!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

New e-mail from Gareth Griffith-Jones

Hello, Martinevans123. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 20:17, 12 July 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 20:17, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Oooo... how exciting! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
You are either in a good mood, or you are being sarcastic – I wonder which?
-- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 20:26, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Haha, probably both! Well I have no idea who he is, although I have added a polite thank you on his Talk Page. Either he or his bot seem to have searched out all instances of that article link in order to repair them. But I was still a bit surprised to see my User Page being tweaked for me! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:30, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Have made a re-appraisal, at his Talk Page, haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I read it (eight minutes to ten) when I went there soon after (at nine minutes past ten) to read his/her reply to my posting earlier this evening. Excellent! He must wonder a bit now about the Welsh, don't you think? -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 21:44, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
I had assumed that he was American, but it looks like he's (only) English. He must be a bit baffled by my reference to "UK TV pundit". Well maybe not. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
I like him; very thorough and patient; one of the good guys round here.
Enjoyed reading your final posting on his page! Cheerio! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 17:18, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes. he seems a very good sort. Might not be that final! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:37, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
True. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:52, 15 July 2012 (UTC)─────────────────────────

Just been enjoying your contributions here -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 16:34, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

He seems to have got himself into a bit of bother, doesn't he. Three months. Oh dear. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:43, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
I, for what it is worth, consider him a decent fellow. Certainly an amusing and entertaining character, don't you think? At that time I am referring to above (about a month ago) you seemed to be his only supporter. I wondered whether you had noticed his posting on my page on July 5 -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 00:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I tend to agree with you. A month ago he seemed to be getting a bit of a raw deal. I think a three month block would almost certainly finish me off here, but I think he is happy to contribute at other language variant wikis. Any editor with that linguistic range ought to be nurtured, if not indulged slightly. But some editors (and admins) seem to have a very low threshold when it comes to "aggravation" (or what used to be called, in my youth, "a bit of bovver"). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:40, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Mmmm ... where have you been? You usually respond so promptly ... Ha ha ... I sometimes wonder why anyone would want to be an admin' and just what is the average age. Quite young, I would say. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 22:57, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I have been busy with DMT amongst other things, and no, not the drug, the poet. Also with the passing of a heavy metal legend (I wish there was a simple "lege" tag that could be added to some articles!) I'm sure some of the really grumpy editors are made even more grumpy by being bossed around my admins half their age. But, of course we'll never know average age. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:04, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Air France Flight 447

Hi, this is a Wikipedian in Italian, if I am a fan of Air France 447. I see that has integrated the voice of the Air France flight 447, if you want to further improve the voice, I recommend you to use our voice in Italian Wikipedia has a good article ( and translate it into English. Appreciating the fact that even in the English Wikipedia has a good article on this topic. Good job, my best wishes. (talk) 09:56, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestion. I will add a note on the Talk Page there, although I fear that it may be a little too problematic to use a translation from French into Italian and then into English. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:16, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Reply to Martinevans123

Further to my last reply, I have been testing a hypothesis to try to prove or disprove a firm connection between "Cnapan" and "Campan".

Potted history.

Rugby Union football, Rugby league football, Association football, Gaelic football, Australian Rules football, American football and Canadian football all evolved from a medieval ball game called "Football". In a similar way, I believe Campball, Football, Cnapan, Cornish Hurling, La Soule and similar medieval ball games evolved from a much earlier common ball game. I suspect that game was either the Roman ball game Harpastum or a ball game of Celtic/Nordic/Other origin.

Testing the hypothesis

I have been looking for evidence which links medieval football type games together. The English-Latindictionary, Promptorium Parvulorum, dated 1440 makes a direct connection between Campball and Football. Definition: "Campan, or playar at foott balle". Campan was an early spelling of Campball. With Cnapan, Cornish Hurling and La Soule there is historical evidence connecting the peoples groups who played these games. The close similarities with the spellings "Campan" and "Cnapan" made me wonder if these were versions of the same word. If so I would be able to make a connection between Cnapan and early Football through Campan. Also the word "Camp" is an early old English borrowed word from Latin providing a Roman connection.

Etymology does not support this idea. Camp is an old English word for battle field; therefore, Campball essentially means to do battle with a ball. Cnapan is old Welsh for carved wooden ball. An original word could have different meanings in the two languages. The Welsh are historically descended from Romano-Britons allowing centauries for the written word "Campan" to become "Cnapan" through spelling variations in literature. So far I have been unable to find any evidence to support this theory. If such evidence could be found it would create a documented link between a medieval ball game called "football" and "Cnapan" which, according to George Owen of Henllys (1552-1613), was played by the Ancient Britons. My next question would then be what was the origin of this game?

Yours, Adrian Roebuck, (July 2012) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrian Roebuck (talkcontribs) 13:35, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

How fascinating. In modern Welsh "cnap" (plural "cnapiau") means - boss, pommel, knob, node, puck, etc. [22] Martinevans123 (talk) 13:50, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

British or Welsh?

Simply because I do not know how to do the coding for Musicians. For one reason or another the code doesn't work in the infobox. And yes I do intend to change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alssa1 (talkcontribs) 15:57, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

But you seem to have taken on quite a task to "re-educate" most other editors, and the people of Wales en masse, there. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:05, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

There should be no problem, Nationality is about citizenship not about personal feelings of belonging. In a country like the Russian Federation there are numerous different ethnicities, each with their own federative "republic" but they are still Russian. If you are Welsh, you have Welsh ethnicity, because you are ethnically Welsh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alssa1 (talkcontribs) 18:32, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

There is no problem, thanks. I have a UK passport. But I have dual nationality - the nation of Britain and the nation of Wales. Try and tell a few English editors that they are not English, but only British. I would be interested to see their reaction. But if you try changing a few hundred wikipedia articles to match, I suspect you might find a few difficulties. Martinevans123 (talk)
Haha, yes, I share your assessment. A nice bit of litotes there, Mr Evans.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:13, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
And here's a link to an old Medieval plainsong carol I have found which kind of sums up what Christmas should really be all about: [23]. Amen.

Halifax gibbet

Thanks for your tidying up. I reverted a couple of your changes, but nothing serious. A fascinating historical backwater don't you think? Malleus Fatuorum 23:44, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Please revert all you want. Yes, incredible. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the Home Counties whose blood runs cold at the thought of such an infernal "French" device. I am just amazed that it was (apparently) unique in England. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Even most of the infernal rides at Alton Towers cost less than the modern day equivalent of one-an-three-ha'pence! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Dylan Thomas

Hi ME123; just looking for an opinion. Do you think I need to haul back a bit on the use of footnotes to lead further information to the text of the Thomas article. This is one of the 'heavier' articles I have contributed to, as I don't normally delve into the world of the arts. Overkill? or justifiable? Any pointers will be appreciated. FruitMonkey (talk) 19:14, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi there 'Monk. I am greatly flattered that you should even ask me at all. I'm generally only ever tinkering around and trying to sneak in what most others consider trivia. All looks fine to me. But I am a self-confessed inclusionist and I'd rather see a little too much than just a bit too little! At least if it's there it can be trimmed if required. I see that Arthur Machen has none, while W. H. Davies has only a few, but combined with refs. W. H. Auden has quite a lot, but again all combined with refs. I think generally too little use is made of footnotes and I am glad to see them. But then a recent excellent article, which went for GA review, William Burges, has none. So I'm not sure. Maybe Dr Blofeld could advise us. Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I too prefer a little too much then missing what others may feel to be an important point. I've only started using the footnotes recently and find them an important little tool. I'll keep them up until I get shouted at. Cheers. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:14, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Lead photo, now I have more books, it appears that the image is from 1937, around the time of his marriage to Caitlin. I am more then happy to see it replaced by a better shot (are you thinking of the one from the series where he is lighting a cigarette? Great pic). I use the same rationale each time for dead artists, and that is unless there is a free shot (there are at the Library of Congress but they have refused to upload more detailed images) we can use one image as it is now impossible to take a snap of him anymore. Then again we may be able to use more images of the author comparing his younger self and the state he got himself into to show the effect of his drinking. That's something that would be difficult to explain in words, but if we did that we may not be able to then use an image in the infobox. I did something similar with Barry John, I could only use the image of him (as he's still alive), pertaining to his kicking style, and that got through GA.FruitMonkey (talk) 15:59, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, lighiting the cigarette is indeed better. The images at these sites are particularly good, I think: [24], [25] and [26]. I don't think the Library of Congress ones are much good at all. So does the info from the book enable us to add a date or location? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
It doesn't matter how good the LoC images are, if they are usable (which presently they are not) we would be forced to use them. I see you prefer images of the latter Thomas. Tell me which image you prefer, and I'll replace it. FruitMonkey (talk) 00:02, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
That's lucky then. I think the first one I linked is the best photograpah, although it does he no favours. He himself look better in the third with the bow tie, but it's slightly over-cropped. I think he looks noticeably younger (and healthier) in the second one, taken, I suspect, before he was famous. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:57, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm not a fan of the cropped one (because of the crop), but the first one is a good option, or maybe this which appears to be taken from the same shoot as the first one. FruitMonkey (talk) 15:28, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
That's an excellent suggestion. Very good indeed. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
You were right, a clearer photo makes the whole article look better. On another point do you have a copy of David Thomas' 2008 book as I think it's vital to pass GA as a cite at the end of paragaph is no good, especially when quotes are use. Ta FruitMonkey (talk) 20:23, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I think it's a big improvement. I certainly have a copy of Fatal Neglect and I can fully recommend it, even if you never edited the article again! The last quote I added, as a footnote, is on page 46. You are doing a fine job by the way. Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Do you have a page number for: She met Thomas at Idlewild Airport and was immediately shocked at Thomas' appearance, as he "looked pale, delicate and shaky, not his usual robust self." Thanks FruitMonkey (talk) 21:58, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's page 57. The paragraph continues thus: "She realised immediately that Dylan had changed since his last trip in May, when he was, she said, basically a healthy man: "in the Fall, that had totally changed... he was very ill when he got here". Martinevans123 (talk) 22:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

That's important, we need to switch the referenceA to a bibligraphic source and start citing each page. I can't do it now, I'm tired and emotional. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:23, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
For the Janes image, I'm not sure how we can justify fair use. On an artist's page we can claim it shows their technique, but for Thomas' page... I'm unsure (I'll have a think). By the way, I know it's a pain, but do you have the pages for all 6 Fatal Neglect quotes. I would far rather we have the pages going into the GA than just naming the book. Cheers. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
No worries, I'll check. The DNT book is actually full of sound-bites. I thought we might want to borrow a bit back from the Janes' article for this one, partic. the Kardomah Gang. (p.s. by he way I am old enough to remember meeting my Nana many-a-time, for toasted tea-cakes and tea, in "The Kardomah" in Newport !) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:20, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Reading the Death section of the article, I have found it does not follow chronological order. We have Herb meeting Dylan on day three, if you follow the 'next days', but I do not have this correlating with his last days. I have set up on my home page, a link to a sandbox called User:FruitMonkey/holding area. There I am trying to piece together the final trip to America so we can make sure we have the chronological order correct. Maybe we can some dates in the article to give a better understanding. You are more than welcome to add or comment on that page if you have some solid dates or events I have missed. Thanks, FruitMonkey (talk) 13:36, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I expect that something has got missed or jumbled up there. I'll try and run through your sandbox chronology with my copy of DNT. No reply from the DTS yet, by the way, re any suitable images they may have. And what a shame if we have to drop the current image simply because it's Getty Images (which obviously has more legal muscle than other owners). Martinevans123 (talk) 14:07, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Chronology looking good, it just helps me make sense of what is a confused time.FruitMonkey (talk) 18:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Brilliant, I'll have a look at it tonight. I'm a bit concerned that we could be getting into too much detail on his death section, but if that becomes a complaint we could easily create an article like Death of John Lennon which is also a GA article. Small problem, I'm off on holidays from Saturday for a week, and it looks wi-fi-less (which I think is a feature my wife looks for in booking a holiday location). I'm sure that Silktork will understand if we need a little more time. FruitMonkey (talk) 19:23, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, we don't want to re-write the whole of DNT's book there, just to get the events in the right order. And we certainly don't want it to be the biggest section in the whole article. But I think his death falls short of the notability of Lennon's. But an idea, perhaps. SilkTork does not seem in too much of a rush. And we're still two years away from Dylan's centenary! Have a good holiday. I know exactly what your wife means! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:40, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

No further replies

Martin, I'm no longer replying at Jimbo's page - I cannot continue to contest flat out lies without looking desperate, and indeed making it look like I believe being an admin is "a big deal" as I have been accused of. Cherry-picking, bad faith, and flat out lies are surprising - hell, RFA was not as bad as that. Indeed, I agree, the community put me there - and as someone stated on my talkpage, I could theoretically ignore Jimbo's recommendation as it holds no true weight - which you also confirm. What I said is truly not grounds for desysop, nor are any of the statements/actions I have ever taken on this project. Taken out of context, we can make anyone/anything look bad. (✉→BWilkins←✎) 23:06, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Bw, I think you are a worthy and committed admin. Sometimes you're a little too abrupt. You are now caught in a very awkward position where immediately taking Jimbo's advice might have saved you. I certainly bear no grudges towards you. I have always admired your sheer work-rate as an admin. I just felt I had to ask a rather obvious and rhetorical "political" question. You cannot be accused of "running to Jimbo Mom", you seem to have been dragged there. Apologies and best regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:12, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Not to drag this on, but my first post in there where I stated that I had contacted Jimbo and was awaiting his reply should have been the end of the entire thread. Instead, I started to counter the lies and pile-ons ... should have just left it as it was I suppose. I appreciate your support and honesty. Cheers (✉→BWilkins←✎) 23:17, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Admins are often in a very difficult position. They often get, as you say, "piled on" whenever someone complains. At least you have had the decency to respond in a very reasonable and civil way. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:22, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Varlaam sock

Really appreciate your comments on my talk page. Thanks Martin. Daicaregos (talk) 14:58, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I find it rather curious that Varlaam should openly add helpful notes in his ediit summaries to tell anyone watching that he's Varlamm and that he's currently blocked. I guess some editors have a different interpretation of what "blocked" means. But, evenso, I think he should have steered well clear of personal comments. I could not defend those. Perhaps he wants an indef block? Which would be rather a shame for a veteran editor who has been contribuuing since 2004. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Google doodle

Hi Martin, many articles don't include the Google doodle mentions, including Borges. WP doesn't work by precedent. See WP:OTHERCRAP for more details. Span (talk) 11:38, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


Hello Martin, Copied'n'pasted this below as I was referring to you on another's page. All the best, -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:16, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


Hi! I have just reinstated your addition (last night) to Wikipedia:WikiSpeak, which had been reverted. Cheers! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 06:48, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. It is one thing when people revert you on an ordinary article and disregard your views but it is all the more humiliating when your sense of humour is called into question! I tried a few tweaks, hopefully they improved it to everyone's satisfaction. Ankh.Morpork 10:32, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it is fine. Great contribution! I see my friend Martin followed my reverting Nobody Ent back to your original ... he has sharp eyes ... noticed the missing 'n'. He and I enjoy each other's sense of humour, and feel Wikipedia is all the better for injecting some from time to time. Sadly, many disagree. I have tweaked it a little as follows:
/* T */ AnkhMorpork ... that is great! Made a couple of tweaks: updated the dash ; Quotation in italics
Cheers! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:13, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Haha, yes quite inventive. We all know that a Talk Page is really the best place to insult other editirs and then to insult the admin who decides to block you for being uncivil... you freakin' idiots!! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:37, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I liked your edit summary on your 'n' edit – pithy. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 17:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Back off, dude - I can't cope with the praise!! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:43, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Hey! Your attempt of assuming modesty fools nobody. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:13, 25 July 2012 (UTC)Modest

"notorious killjoy"

It seems there's a strange kind of "joy" that you've been "killing" recently.... Of course, we all knew about the notoriety anyway, but that's a different story haha... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:05, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, alas, now that my Nobel Prize is out in the open, my cover is well and truly blown, "sob". But, as they say on Wikipedia, I think, "looks like a duck, quacks like a sock" (or is it a chicken - I can never remember), whatever that means. Oh well, the iniquitous bingo-halls and chip-shops of Rochdale will get no peace from me, I can assure you. And I never got into that edition of Crimewatch! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:11, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
(That was, in fact, the second funniest thing I've seen at Wikipedia this year. And it's only July! yay!) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:19, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Well I've got to ask, what's the funniest? Would it take place in an iniquitous chip-shop? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:25, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Quite probably. But I think it's carefully hidden away in Keifer.Wolfowitz's Talk Page archive, and if I go and drag it out again it will probably be seen as grounds for him getting another 28 day "Guantanamo Bay Block". If I do find it, I'll be sure to let you know! But thank you, PC White of the humour police, for bringing that little gem to my attention. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:38, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Anytime. Actually I was surprised that you hadn't already seen it, but then I think your watchlist gets quite large (oooh, matron...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I tried to reduce it, honest, matron, but it just got me blocked! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:06, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Haha. If seeing that diff has tickled you, would you say that your countenance is now akin to that of that well-known bon viveur, TV's Tony Walmsley? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:17, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Sheesh. This guy is amazing. Admin material if ever I saw it. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Those poor admins - halos or horns? I like the way our guy created a new user account, but put his old one in brackets, so everyone still knows who he is.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:28, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Bless. I think he's actually quite genuine. They sometimes have those very tricky spiky halos, that are quite sharp and pointy and blood-stained... ) Martinevans123 (talk) 22:36, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
They sound good, I think I'm going to ask for one of those for Christmas haha... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:41, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
ouch! I just got cut on the sharp irony there. Yours, "Young Nehamkin" (older than Old Nehamkin)....
"Isn't all mankind ultimately executed for a crime it never committed?" PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:02, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
"I was supposed to go at five o'clock, but I have a smart lawyer. Got leniency."
Haha, extra time - or penalty time? I think we should all have smart lawyers provided for us on the NHS - might reduce a few health problems...
Strangely, that reminds me of a quote by that shrinking violet Pete Burns - when he was asked in an interview what he thought of the nuclear bomb, he replied that he thought that "every home should have one..." PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:18, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I would like to defend my edits but not in a public forum

Mr Martinevans123, I was blocked from making edits to the Jackie Mason page and would like to defend my edits, but I can't in a public forum do to privacy issues concerning the relationship I have with subject matter of the article. I respect the work you do greatly, and the service that wikipedia provides the world, but it also can do harm because of malicious people. Is there a way to defend my position to you in a private thread or other means of direct communication? Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by SayBaw (talkcontribs) 20:34, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your note, SayBaw. Yes, I think some editors found your previous edits at that article somewhat contentious. But you simply broke a wikipedia rule - the three revert rule (see WP:3RR) - and then continued with further "edit waring", which led to you being blocked for a month. You seem to be a very sincere contributor and seem to be close to the subject of that article. But personal information and private sources count for nothing at wikipedia, I'm afraid. You are very welcome to email me privately if you see the need. But I am unable to make any representations to anyone on your behalf. I can offer no better advice than that you need to provide reliable sources for any of your edits. And if you find yourself being "reverted", don't just reverse that revert, but open a discussion on the article Talk Page. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Ask for help expanding Jade Bailey (footballer)

I am the creator of the article Jade Bailey (footballer). I came here hoping to ask for help in expanding it because you added a note concerning her on I don't know enough to do a good article here. I need 1500 characters to get it past . I don't think we're quite there yest but I have expanded the article further. I may not be able to contribute much this week, so if you can help or suggest someone else who can help, then that would help a lot. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 16:40, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure that "being seen by 1 billion people" necessarily makes her notable.. although if she'd dropped the torch, then maybe it would have! How many characters are you still short of? Not really sure what I could add. But thanks for asking. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:58, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
We are about 300 chars short for a DYK. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 18:01, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Thomas image

If you are mailing the Dylan Thomas trust re: a usable image. You may wish to mention that as part of the Dylan Thomas celebration we intend to have Thomas as the featured article on the 4th(?) most popular website in the world on the day of his 100th birthday. May give us some leverage. Cheers. FruitMonkey (talk) 22:15, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok, will mention that. They have a very interesting biog up on their site at the moment, of one Nora Summers, who looks like she might deserve her own article here! [27] Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

2012 Summer Olympics Parade of Nations

In this article you keep removing a reference to music from Ireland (U2) being played. You refer to the talk page but there is no discussion of this in the talk page? What is your rationale for removing the fact that Irish music was being played? (talk) 12:52, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi, ip from Sweden. The only reason I "keep removing" it, is because other editors "keep re-adding it". But I'm not the only one. You need to look in the Talk Page archive, e.g. [28]. If you still feel strongly about it, then by all means open a another discussion topic about it on the Talk Page. But I think the consensus will be that it should not be given a general mention in that way. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:07, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

But what is your rationale? You say other "nations" (in quotation marks) also had music played. Which other nations are you referring to? (talk) 14:30, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I wonder did you see this (which, as you can see, has been marked as "Resolved"): [29]? Also, I'm not sure that pop music has the same "nationality" attached to it as does traditional music. Yes U2 are Irish, and yes of course Ireland is a nation. But if we asked Bono "Do you play Irish music"? What do you think he would say? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:39, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
He wouldn't say, "I play British music." Since the music of many nations was played, but mainly Britain, you can easily change it to "British and world music". I don't see the problem with that. It's accurate as the ceremony focused mainly on British music, with a mix here and there of some other nations. But just putting exclusively British is factually inaccurate. (talk) 15:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Quite so, I suspect he'd say "I play Rock music". Where do you see the phrase "exclusively British"? The key sentences currently used are: "The overwhelming majority of the music was to be British" and "The choice of music for the ceremony was a wide and eclectic selection to showcase mainly British music" - which most editors seem to agree are also perfectly factually accurate. If you think they should be changed, or some other credits given, then by all means make fresh suggestions on the Talk Page. I note that Boyle's views on Indian music are already discussed in the article. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:12, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
In the current article ( it simply says "iconic modern music of Britain." Britain is mentioned exclusively, with no suggestion of the music of any other country and/or geographical region (in the case of NI) being made. This makes the article factually incorrect. (talk) 18:16, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I see what you mean. The word "exclusively" is not mentioned. But my view is that the current version of the article is perfectly adequate and in no way factually inaccurate. But I also see that "Irish band U2" are explicitly mentioned by name. My advice to you remains the same: open a discussion on the article Talk Page. You may find other editors who agree with you! Is that clear?? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:24, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
I don't see "Irish band U2" mentioned in the article, are we talking about the same thing? Simply changing the sentence in the opening paragraph to "iconic modern music of Britain and the world" would fix everything. It's an incredibly simple and minor change that perfectly reflects the music played. There is absolutely no viable reason not do do so. (talk) 00:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
My apologies, I was referring to 2012 Summer Olympics opening ceremony. I have now changed and linked the heading above to 2012 Summer Olympics Parade of Nations to clarify what we are discussing. I have been assuming all along that arguments made describing the music apply equally to these two different articles. There has, in fact, been no separate discussion at the Parade article. So you may be right in your comment, as non-British music featured more prominently, as a larger proportion. I will not revert your change if you make one. But others still might. So you'd still be best advised to open a discussion topic. Apologies once again for the confusion. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Electric Brae

The information you've copied from Gravity Hill doesn't assist in the understanding of the illusion at the Electric Brae. All other explanations advise the absence of a horizon - however the opposite is true at this location. It's a thoroughly un-nerving place to be but well worth a visit as it's probably the best of it's kind.

Would you please revert back to my last edit? The entry I added entitled "Cause" is harmless, absent of original research and puts an end to a >70 year old mystery. NARkwS (talk) 19:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. You are obviously very enthusiastic about this particular topic. I have opened a thread here, so that all discussion may be kept in one place. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:21, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for the debate. After my most recent updates on the Talk page I'm resigning from the research. I'm hopeful that the Talk page remains for at least a while. I don't know any journalists, but having it there would give some the opportunity to investigate it themselves and hopefully result in a publication, thus allowing the new information to be part of the Wikipedia article. NARkwS (talk) 20:18, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
No worries. But you don't need to resign - just see it as temporary break. There are 4 million other articles for you to contribute to whenever you wish! That Talk Page is a pretty slow one, so it will probably be many months, or even years, before it gets archived - but it will never go away completely. Electric Brae is many miles from my home, but I hope I may visit one day. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:28, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
There's other interests that I'll undoubtedly return to Wikipedia for and will have a better approach to contributing next time. It's just the Brae I'm resigning from. It's seriously eery, so much so that I hadn't even looked at any of my road photographs until you mentioned that other one. I skipped over all of them to see the best coastals. This might explain why no-one takes much interest there. On my first visit to the Brae I encountered a Discovery Channel filming crew and told them (on film) that I didn't believe it to be an illusion. I study (a version of) gravity so was keen to see how the Brae could help there - although it turns out that this 'Gravity' hill really doesn't have anything gravitationally special about it after all. If you ever visit be sure to make a list of things you're going to do, because if you leave it to memory the Brae will see you gone without doing half of them! Until next time. NARkwS (talk) 20:44, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
As you can see I didn't quite give up on it. I was going to message you about clearing away the old notes and conversations but wasn't sure that you'd want troubled about it again. It's no worries leaving them though, I just preferred to remove the clutter. NARkwS (talk) 20:07, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Glad you did not give up. Most Talk Pages survive quite well, even with "clutter" going back years. If a thread is still open it's often wise to leave it where new editors may still come across it and contribute. I think the unsigned note about metric conversion has now been dealt with, but it will probably be a bit lonely in that first archive box for a while yet... Many Talk pages have 10 or more threads still visible before there is any need to archive. And if the list gets a bit long, an index can be used to navigate. Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:15, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


Why? Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:11, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much Ghm. Guardian angel yet again. Derek's Talk Page is on my watchlist from ages back. (Coincidentally so is RC's) Occasionally my ancient laptop and mouse combination "have a spazz" (technical term, there) and start inserting on anything on my page at random. I thought I had averted disaster, but apparently not. Most embarassing (and looks like a hopelessly invented excuse, I'm afraid). But as you can see, I have really had no interest in that last exchange. I'd better also apologise to those two editors! Thanks again. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:44, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Martinevans123. You have new messages at Trappedinburnley's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

My talk page

No problem - I was more than puzzled though, to say the very least. All's well that ....

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I am so sorry Derek. I was just on my way to your talk page to apologise. It's as if my remote mouse suddenly decides to insert on anything at random - including any visible UNDO options. I'm sure it will end one day - when I get a newer laptop! I am very grateful to Guy for alerting me. Thanks for your understanding. (wow, have you really made as many edits as that!) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:48, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
I get the same problem on my laptop - oversensitive touch pad in my case. The difficulty is in trying to prise my teenage son off the PC when he's watching South Park videos... Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:27, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

"Good faith" ?

Here's yesterday's favourite recipe for a "good-natured and collaborative collegiate environment":

Ingredients and method "d'un seul coup":
  1. Dare to improve an article that has been a Featured Article, and A Good Article nominee since April 2008.
  2. Notice that an anon ip has added unsourced material in the wrong place.
  3. Try to correct that mistake, but also try to introduce additional material from an associated article.
  4. When this is reverted by another editor as unsupported, open a discussion thread and then ask questions about what the current article actually means (fatal mistake?)
  5. Try to add something else from the associated article, but get told by that editor it's "uncited and irrelevant" and be given a suggestion to go and improve the other article.
  6. Suggest that errors which seem obvious to that editor could be corrected by that editor himself.
  7. Get told "Go fix the fucking article yourself, don't try telling me what I ought to do... you clearly have no idea how to write a decent encyclopedia article"
  8. Go to the editor's Talk Page to leave a comment, but then see that the article (with a helpful link to the above sequence), has been "obsessively "improved" by those too ignorant and lazy to have done the work themselves, or to improve any of the supporting articles."

First dowse in turgid duck pond-water for 30-40 hours. Then toast liberally upon a very warm bonfire (suggest a big heap of facts).

(Random) Readers of the article, if there are any, may (liberally) add their own seasoning to produce a lovely appetising dish, commonly called (in Barley and neighbouring Pendle villages) "meaning".

Yes, so much for Good Faith. But apparently I'm now "a true believer". How much more comfortable not be a recusant. "Bon 'appen-tit" as they say in deepest darkest Lancashire.

"Just add water, makes it's own sauce" - Jimmy Wales


Acchh, it was only Malleus getting pissy again. So, what's new? Check out his block log. Just steer clear of any of their precious and patently unimprovable (!) FAs, and all will be well. When he sobers up, he might even think about saying sorry. See you back here soon. (Hums new national anthem......) Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:40, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I'm sure he will apologise for being so blunt. How ironic that I should be so offended by someone whom I have chosen to defend on a number of occasions against sanctions for incivility. Or maybe no irony at all. Just disappointment on being proved wrong. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:27, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I know - I tend to take his side as often as not, and I know he does some good work here between the outbursts. Oh well, it takes all sorts, I guess. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Some thoughts

A few lines from someone who once - briefly - retired:

"As I sat at home one night listening to the radio, DJ Kid Jensen was playing, 'Say Hello, Wave Goodbye'. 'We shall miss Marc Almond,' he said. I panicked. 'No, wait,' I thought, 'I'm still here, I didn't really retire.' I phoned the radio station and told him that I was back, stronger and louder than ever, and a bemused Kid Jensen responded by playing 'Million Manias' from Torment and Toreros. It felt good to be back, I think. It certainly felt good to hear that 'Fuck you, baby' at the end of the song being played on the BBC. I was determined not to let people beat me down. I was not going away again. I was going to go on and make even better records. I was going to sing loud. The next day I went to the Some Bizarre offices, leaned out of the window, and announced I was back, throwing black silk roses down to a handful of waiting fans." (Tainted Life - the autobigraphy, p210)

On the subject of a recent exchange, my view is that unfortunately it's quite common for people with a certain level of intelligence to mistakenly believe that the perceived ownership and exercise of such an attribute is somehow more important than treating all human beings with respect. Needless to say I think such individuals have a lot to learn.

Also needless to say is that I'm sure you'll always find a few folks here willing to catch some black silk roses... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Goodness me how dramatic, darhling. The first time I have been compared with pop superstar Marc Almond (I do hope). If black silk roses are a bit beyond my budget, would a couple of Morrisons' potted geraniums do the trick? (I always used to chuckle at the way John Peel referred to that modern go-ahead DJ as "Kid Jerkin"). He had such a way with subtle lyrics, our Marc, didn't he. I'm minded of that old Lancashire dialect greeting "Fuck off, you cunt" - not that one ever sees it used here in the modern "white hot" cutting edge of wikipedia editing (even from the venerable old "clog wearers" as we call them). Such a shame. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Geraniums are OK (well, Pelargonium to be botanically accurate), but can you make sure you either take them out of the pots first, or else aim well away from me 'ead? Thanks. (Otherwise I fear some chrysanths and lilies might be needed about a week later....) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:34, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I would like to add that I was sad to see the banner at the top of your page. Believe me, I understand the frustrations of working in this place, but sometimes it's best to just shrug your shoulders, accept that some things just are and can't be changed and move on to something else. There are plenty of things to improve here (like the collaboration on Dylan Thomas which seems to be going well). If you do decide to stop your work here, could I ask that you just take a break instead of intending to retire completely? If when you return you still feel it's not to you, fair enough, but please don't close that door. In the meantime, if you find any articles you think should be brought up to GA, I would be happy to collaborate with you on them. Just let me know. Cheers for now. Daicaregos (talk) 07:37, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I concur, ditto, etc. etc. (see above) Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:43, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Dai and Ghm for your support (even though apparently, Ghm, you are "a nutcase"). Many thanks for the offer of collaboration - even though I have been told that I ".. clearly have no idea how to write a decent encyclopedia article". Feels less like closing a door, more like having it firmly slammed in ones face. Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:47, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Don't let the buggers grind you down, Martin. You are my best friend here. Sincerely.
With kindest regards, -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 07:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
It's singular, not plural, just at the moment, but I know what you mean. Thank you, Gareth, that's very kind of you to say so. You are one of the most polite editors with whom I've had the privilege of "working". Martinevans123 (talk) 17:26, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
One earns one's respect in life, and you have it in bucket loads ... or is it bucket fulls ... yes, I think so. Aw, hell, you know what I am trying to say. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:04, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
"... along the same lines as "Peanut Gallery"", or something, apparently. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Mmm? I prefer to hum along to "Oh My Darling, Clementine" ... please relax and give yourself a minimum term of absence and keep to it regardless. All the best! Gareth.
-- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 08:35, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Have a good break. We all need them from time to time. Good work done with Dylan. Ultimately NGAF: (IAD) is the only way to go on WP. First and last rule. Enjoy the real world while it lasts. Best wishes Span (talk) 22:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

That's always a problem with doomed poets. Now you've been meeting revolution like it was a, like b. Please do not even remember those terms as given by Span! You've kept your soul safe don't you think you will be a match for cynicism; however purple what you've met have shades - I believe. Regards, --Askedonty (talk) 23:51, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your kind interest in the welfare of my six line stanza of a soul. When I have worked out what you mean, I might even reply (... and I used to think that my comments were a bit cryptic). Not quite sure if you meant this one or this one. But I think I'll keep my shades on just for now, thanks. "Aye doomed, Captain Mainwaring, we're all doomed, ah say!" Martinevans123 (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Gosh! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 07:50, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
I do not particularly think I'd need replies, thanks. I just happen to have read that exchange you had regarding the Pendle Witches and I've seen you there like in the mud so I'm not surprised by what happened. Next step if it's turning your mood the way it seems you quit you lose, that's all I wanted to say. Take those vacations. --Askedonty (talk) 11:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, that is kind. I will. But, you know what they say.. "Blut ist dicker als Wasser"" or, as it translates in Northern English, mud is thicker than water! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
You got me perfectly clear. --Askedonty (talk) 11:38, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Not a stranger, it seems ... April 13 - 14 ... -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 11:22, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Personally, I'd never ask a donkey. But this one is very welcome to drop by. Martinevans123 (talk)
You have a new talk-page-stalker! In order to revive that old Lancashire greeting; I would just like to introduce myself here with a hearty: "Fuck off, you cunt!". It should be obvious from my edit history that i myself am a "soft southern fairy" - just wanted to ask do you guys really put brown-sauce in your tea instead of sugar? My brother 'swears down' he's seen it! - Stereotype Archipelago Brainjam
Heavens, at last, someone with manners. The poodle cut suits you by the way. Yours, the Northern Sauce King.
Owjoo know about my Brian May? in the vid i'm bald - but usually i look more like this - i took some artistic license with the hair, (IRL it is more like May!) and also aged m'self a few years so i could grow into it rather than have a Dorian Grey situation.. btw - that "appen we do lad is still making me chuckle.. Hillbillyholiday talk 14:37, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
Haha, I bet all you posh southern girls say that! yours, Lord Henry Wooton.
Well Lord Henry, i'm no Dorian, (much more like Basil really, oh, hold on, doesn't he get killed?) if anyone is Dorian it would have to be my daft hayp'th 'ex' - i got a random message out the blue t'other day, saying she'd cured herself of aids and 'spat out lung cancer' that'd I had given her by voodoo, and that was the sane bit.. Hillbillyholiday talk 15:10, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
Ah yes, dear Brian - one of the few people who manages to make even The Queen sound quite common. But your ex sounds like a rite laff, I must say! Btw you don't need to be so formal, please just call me Sir Henry! As I'm sure you know... "There is no proper name for the back of the knees!" - village newsagent and wiki-addict, Reg Smeaton.
Sir Henry? Just arfinched yr talk page template what the welsh buzzard gave you, to use on me own talk page. I think it looks rather tasteful with a nice bit of art. It was the last time I ever got asked to keep score at darts..Sid Waddell's black-sheep of a son
Bill Oddie?? Steal all you want... even the racist jokes. Yours, Maurice Fitzmartin
Black and white and eats humble pie? - It's not The Black Widow aka The Leader of the Four Horsemen of the Esophagus is it??? Piss Crackham
Um, yes, actually, it is. Mein Gott in Himmel, 35 bratwursts in 10 minutes is a lot... even for a slightly-pudgy darts MC! (p.s. I've subscribed) yours, brother Jem
Was i wrong in my hearty greeting? shouldn't it have been "Fuck off, you cunt!"...? - A Fully Warped Zefram Cochrane
Alas, yes.. I see that my "special equine interests" precede me. But good to see that particular international gesture of greeting is known, in the United States, as a "Gaddafi". Poor old Zef looks well and truly warped, don't he? (.. nice inter-galactic poodle-cut, though).

As I'm getting rather tired with discussing dearly departed ol' Maggie, i'm going to use yr talk page to publish a poem that i recently recited to the 'liberals of Brighton' (seriously the night was called "playgroup"). It's about Blair. Really, it was only to lull them into a false sense of security, before hitting them with a Stanhope-inspired musical-number about immigrants, infanticide and domestic-abuse, that was so offensive (the blokes loved it, but the ladies not so much) i'm not sure even this page could handle it!

Have you ever noticed that Tony Blair's got too many teeth?
I reckon they re-grow in rows like a sharks'
Cos' like a shark Tony Blair never sleeps
And like a shark Tony Blair never weeps
Beware after dark
Tony Blair lurks the streets
But you might just see him coming from the glinting of his teeth..

Harry Houdini: the early years..

Why, Harry, that's lovely! You'll get a gold star for that after you've added your item for our Nature Table. You'll be pleased to know that Señora Blanco will be coming in this week (in a specially designed box!) to do a very extended Show-and-Tell with full military honours. Well done Harry! your OFSTED-endorsed teacher, Mr Comm Puter (talk) 07:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC).
Cheers sir! Aaah.. the summer of 2004, when a loophole in their law, meant that i could grow cubes in a box, in my drawer.. - Rab C. Nesquik
Well, that's it! I resign (again)!! I've obviously met my match here.. in terms of random alphabet-soup style steam-iron-of-subconsciousness wikilinking subversion !! There's simply no respect these days... Rubbish dumped on all my best Good Articles....!! For years I was living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' ANI road ...!! And you try and tell the young editors of today that!!! Yours, in eternal bitterness, Edith Rab Nesbitt
At least you know when yr beat, Sir Henry. Probably for the best, time to step aside and let some fresh blood show you a thing or two. I might be getting a bit carried away with the old wikilink malarkey -- micro dot cotton
'ere mate, I 'ad one ov 'em chavs in the back o' me cab last week! A rite ol' pantomime that was, I can tel ya! He tried to sell me a load of old "Colombian", but it turned out to be just a well-known washin' powda! Luv-a duck, can ya credit it! Mind you, I'll ave anyone in me cab, I will. I ain't prard. Well, anyone except them South American psychopathic dictators wot do yer 'ed in an' that. Stands ta reason, done it!! Yours, Ken the red cabbie lol.. still in stitches over "micro dot cotton!! lmfao innit
Say whatchya like about ol' Scarlet Rapture, she were a right sexy dame. Just imaginin' 'er legs at quarter-parst-nine, my bum a blur.. There.. were.. cups-and-saucers-in-the-air.. Wanna buy a cannon me ol' china ? btw, try slipping the words COMPRISED OF into an article, and see how long it takes this guy to come-a-knocking!!! - Rotten Johnny

Where's my money you slag?

sacre bleu, mon ole china ..."did the earth move for ya NancyMaggie?"...
Aye, but you can never leave the Womb of Darkness.. Might as well get used to it, but this is exactly why i didn't buy a computer for so long..
...there are regular "W.A." support group meeting ... and they ae mostly held in pubs, which is very handy if you are a famous alcoholic ...
Oh lord no! I only just got over that addiction! Gazza lives near me now, I must be the only one in all 'Bostralia' not to see him. He even helped my dad find the Ribena in Sainsbury's t'other day (he got the wrong type, but then again he's probably not that au fait with soft drinks..)
It's not the miner-business that bothers me about Thatcher. It was closing all them tiddlywinks factories.. Couldn't have been more counter-productive.. (You can keep that one in a wee matchbox, get it out for special occasions!) Legless but harmless

DYK for Shirenewton Hall

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:03, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Noo don't retire. I feel the same at times but that's wiki for you! Feel free to expand Church of St Michael and All Angels, Forden.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:19, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your support and thanks for the bait. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:03, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


Surely not, when there's so much to do on Monmouthshire and the Welsh borders? I should be greatly sorry if you did. I'm very much enjoying my, almost complete, wiki-break, but a break doesn't have to be a complete withdrawal. All the best and very much hope to see you back soon. KJP1 (talk) 20:42, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your note, KJP1. Much appreciated. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Cnapan's place in footballing history

Hi Martin,

As you will know I have been trying to firm up Cnapan's place in footballing history. I would like to make the following changes to the opening paragraph.

Existing paragraph

Cnapan (sometimes spelt Knapan or Knappan) is a Celtic form of medieval football, vaguely resembling some modern versions of rugby football, played in Wales until the nineteenth century.[1][2] The game originated in, and seems to have remained largely confined to, the western counties of Wales, especially Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire. According to George Owen of Henllys, in his Description of Pembrokeshire (1603), cnapan had been "extremely popular in Pembrokeshire since greate antiquitie [sic]".[2]

Proposed paragraph

Cnapan (alternative spellings Criapan, Knapan or Knappan) is a Welsh name for a Celtic form of medieval football. The game originated in, and seems to have remained largely confined to, the western counties of Wales, especially Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire. According to George Owen of Henllys, in his Description of Pembrokeshire (1603), cnapan had been "extremely popular in Pembrokeshire since greate antiquitie [sic]".[2] Cnapan was one of the various traditional ball games played to celebrate Shrovetide in the British Isles. These games were the forerunners of the codified football games first developed by Public Schools leading to the creation of Association football and Rugby football in the 19th century. Cnapan continued to be played until the rising popularity of Rugby Union Football in Wales resulted in the games decline.

I would appreciate your opinion of this. I would add links to other articles for verifications.

Regards, Adrian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrian Roebuck (talkcontribs) 14:00, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

@ Adrian Roebuck. I left you a note, yesterday, on your talk page. Sincerely, -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 10:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Dylan Thomas

Symbol support vote.svgThis user helped promote the article Dylan Thomas to good article status.

Good work. Keep it up! SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:51, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughtful review. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:55, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Wikiproject Wales Barnstar.png The Wales Barnstar
Super work on getting the article Dylan Thomas to GA status. Have a Barnstar. FruitMonkey (talk) 07:51, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, but you deserve all of the credit, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:57, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


Hey, how have you been? How's your editing been recently? I'm going back to Uni on Monday. Will be fun. Summer has gone by so fast.

I just came across someone completely awkward on here.

Charlr6 (talk) 02:16, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Charlr6, great to hear from you. I have been fine, thanks, but my editing has been rather lacking. I have had a long-overdue wiki-break and have been away to Cologne and Hamburg in Germany, to Lincolnshire and to Suffolk. August must be a bad month for me - last year I got an indef block for using too many accounts, this year I decided I might as well retire as get insulted by another editor whom I had defended on several occasions.
Yes, that other editor of yours looks a bit awkward too. But that discussion looks quite calm and polite compared with many I've seen here. It just goes to support my suspicion that some editors come here only to have an argument and others are only happy if they have insulted someone. Apologies are in very short supply.
There are a few things I want to add to various articles (other "owning" editors permitting, of course). But after that, my long term tenure here does not seem very secure, I'm afraid. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:18, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Hope your holiday went well. I do find it very annoying when people do that. They told me you don't know what is happening behind the other persons screen but actually he was quick to respond to everything. This BURDEN rule, about whoever makes an edit must have a source is just, excuse me, bullshit. A rule created so other editors can't join together and help each other out. On Wikipedia it seems like its one for his own. I found information out for other editors before as I was kind, it wasn't my job at all according to Wiki rules, but I did. And its a talk page, we don't need to reference things we say. It's practically a big Facebook discussion. I do really think Wikipedia is hugely un-professional with professional rules created so that it looks like people are being professional. I find it annoying when I come across a page where it seems like someone 'owns' it. Such as erm... DarkBlakeWarrior or whatever his name is. You see him everywhere, acts like he owns the place. Sometimes I just wish I wouldn't go onto a page and see another annoying editor.
Saw you are considering to retire. That will be years away for me, haha. And probably the government have changed retirement to 105 or something by then so they don't have to help any retired people. Charlr6 (talk) 14:40, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. But it means only "Retire from Wikipedia", lol. I am only using that banner as there isn't one that says "Am Considering Resigning from Wikipedia Because Am So Fed Up With Other Arrogant and Spiteful Editors Acting Like They Know Everything And Own The Place"... (you not included, actually!)Martinevans123 (talk) 15:48, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
I was just looking back to see what's happened at ANI in the past couple of weeks and I came across this [31]! How incredible. It seems there are quite a few editors who use their sandboxes to run imaginary series of Big Brother, with their least favourite editors as some of the inmates! ffs, incredible, what's this place coming to ?! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:23, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

You'll love this... Charlr6 (talk) 23:49, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Haha. Almost as much as you'll love those Recent reports. There's no way that Roth character is a credible source! He's been making up stuff all his life. But that Portnoy's Complaint was very good - I found that once I started I just couldn't stop! Haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:44, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Roth was the author of the book and he will know his original intentions for a book. If I were to become a film maker or author, I would give Wikipedia exclusive information. Charlr6 (talk) 16:56, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I know, haha. I was being ironic again. He ought to know best about any of the books he's written, I would suggest. Although, just like the rest of us, authours do have the right to change their minds. Inspiration can be a harsh mistress, I find... (just like Miss Cindy Whiplash from our local massage parlour... ) Martinevans123 (talk) 08:49, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Go onto [Talk:Untitled_Star_Trek_sequel#Somebody_make_a_page_for_.22Star_Trek_Into_Darkness.21.22] and what see Scjessey. Simon Pegg said on his Twitter... "How do you get past the curse of the ":"? You get rid of it altogether. Trek ain't a noun, it's a verb. STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS MAY 2013". And it is his official twitter, verified and confirmed by Twitter because of the blue tick next to their name, and yet Scjessey said that Twitter can be used as a source, and then says that the movie title doesn't have certification or a reliable source and says in brackets 'which we don't, despite claims to the contrary'. It is staring them right in the face. The official Twitter of Simon Pegg, and as Twitter can be used as a source, they seem to just be trolling now, and only would be happy with an official statement from Paramount pictures, even though Simon Pegg is a main actor, in the movie. Tell me what you think, comment if you like. Charlr6 (talk) 19:23, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Cripes, you Trekies, eh. (and cineastes) Whatever next... I have never seen such a big article for something that doesn't even exist yet. What's next.. rifling through Peggs' garbage at 2 in the morning?? (surely more reliable than Twitter). But I have had enough trouble, thanks, with people who died ridiculously odd deaths, but can't be decribed as such because no WP:RS has ever actually stated "this was an unusual death". Maybe we could ask Pegg to send us a "flash tweet" about Gus Grissom and pals? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:40, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Re:Oliver Sacks

Thanks for you words of welcome. The link you used is an exact duplicate of the original press release that I posted. I'm actually at NYU Med, so its probably that the link I had was an internal press release on NYU's intranet. Thanks for the fix! Ledflyd (talk) 04:21, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

No worries, Ledflyd. Sacks is a fascinating and engaging character, isn't he. I am sure you will keep a watchful eye on all wikipedia NYU Med matters! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

To answer...

You asked 2 unanswered questions in ANI, or they're probably 1 single question.

No: admins are not beyond the same laws as everyone when it comes to WP:Alternate account. Admins are more likely to have at least one - usually a non-sysopped one that they can use in public computers so that their passwords aren't stolen.

Indeed, almost everyone is permitted an alt account, but only when used according to the policies. dangerouspanda 14:40, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very good of you to drop me a note. Since that thread was closed quite quickly, I have also in fact left a comment at the WP:SOCK Talk Page. To me it's still a bit unclear how any editor, who has more than one account, is meant to show this. Perhaps there should be an agreed single template. I've never had any big problems with your contributions, of course, maybe just a few niggles here and there. You will no doubt remember that I quizzed you about multiple accounts when you were up for ArbCom Election last year, after my own particular unwitting disaster with multiple accounts. Thanks again. Regards. (p.s. one of my favourite names/signatures, by the way!) Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Um, I've never run for ArbComm elections though ... :-) dangerouspanda 09:40, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
How strange. I do apologise. I put it down to the inherent complexity of the ArbCom election process. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:24, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Cologne Cathedral

Hi, I won't template you as you are an experienced editor, but you should not change US for UK spelling or vice versa on an article per WP:ENGVAR. If you look on the talk page it is pretty clear that the article was written in US English. If you think that there are compelling reasons to change this, feel free to raise them in talk. Thanks. --John (talk) 20:38, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for not templating me. Your edit summary said "reinstate copyedit, reinstate American English; see WP:DATERETAIN and the talk page". So I read WP:DATERETAIN and did not think your edit was justified, as the only date included was definitely wrong ("the 11 May"). But now, reading your comments on the Talk Page (which have as yet had no response), if I understand your reasoning, because the edit by anon ip at 13:28 on 13 January 2006, introduced an American spelling, that's the reason the article must now be consistently in US English. Is that correct? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:21, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that is exactly right. Sorry I used the wrong policy shortcut in the edit summary. --John (talk) 21:24, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
So it's a case of "whoever gets there first wins"? That ip editor (geolocated to the city of Moers in Nordrhein-Westfalen) added a section on bells. Can you point me to the use of US English in that edit? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:34, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, the edit in question introduced the spelling "center" to the article. --John (talk) 21:55, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
So because an unknown ip, who made three edits, added the word "center", over six and a half years ago, that means we need to ensure the article uses US English? Doesn't that seem a little random to you? Is there no policy for English Variations for articles about European churches, or about German, or even European, places in general? Would you not expect one? By the way, centre of gravity also re-directs to "Center of mass". Martinevans123 (talk) 22:04, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that's how it works, as far as I understand it. Good catch on the redirect. --John (talk) 22:08, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Brit Eng: "that leaves a little to be desired, don't you think?"
US Eng: "sucks big time" Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

But where is that written down exactly, I wonder? Are you sure that was really the first Eng Var useage in that article? And, as you're here... You will no doubt remember that you told me, on 3 March 2012 (or even March 3, 2012): "As tabloids, the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday definitely wouldn't be considered as reliable sources, especially for a WP:BLP article." I wonder could you clarify whether that this is, in fact, agreed Wikipedia policy or just your personal opinion? Is there a list of banned sources somewhere? I have yet to find it. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

  • It's written down at WP:RETAIN. Yes, I'm sure because I looked through all the edits made up to that point. On the sourcing question you can read WP:BLPN and its archives. What BLP was it again? March seems a long time ago. --John (talk) 22:29, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
    "When an English variety's consistent usage has been established in an article.. " so you're suggesting that the addition of the word "center", by an anon ip, in January 2006, "established consistent useage"? Hmmm. Don't you even think it would be wise to have a clear policy on European articles? Not sure which that BLP article was now (he lies). Does it vary between articles, I wonder? When I get to the end of all the WP:BLPN archives, I'm sure I'll let you know. That banned list is tucked away in there, is it? Hmmm. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:39, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
    That's right, because that spelling has persisted in the spelling ever since then. If it was up to me, yes, I would probably use UK spelling on European articles, but that isn't the policy. Of course it is more than spelling that varies between the two dialects. If you are interested, and you use Firefox, there are free dictionaries which give you the choice to copyedit and correct spelling in either dialect. What we can't have is an article containing a mixture of both, as this article used to. That looks terrible. --John (talk) 05:53, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    As regards the other matter you raise, you seemed to indicate here that you were satisfied with the conclusion we reached. If it's a more general inquiry about the reliablility of tabloid sources, there would be no harm at all in raising it as a separate conversation at WP:BLPN. Let me know if you are doing this because I would be interested to see it. --John (talk) 09:31, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    Thanks for the replies. I quite agree that a mixture of the two styles, in one article, is the last thing that is needed. But the current system seems to me quite arbitrary. It seems to allow for inconsistency e.g. between the article for a building and the respective articles for other similar buildings, the town or city in which they are located, the region in which that city is located, and the country in which the region is located, etc., etc. Surely some kind of geographical criterion should apply - or is there clear evidence that certain non-English speaking countries prefer UK or US English? I'm also still unsure how it is determined that "consistent usage has been established" in an article - is this a function of the length of time that an edit goes unreverted? or the number of times it has been revered (or not reverted)? or both?
    As regards tabloids, yes I was indeed satisfied at the time. I've just had second thoughts after seeing Daily Mail material used and not challenged in several places. Your appearance here reminded me. If I raise the issue at BLPN, I'll certainly let you know. It's not a major concern, but again policy seems to me a bit unclear, or at best piecemeal. Thanks again for your comments. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:45, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
"I don't believe it." V. Meldrew 17:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Ah, hello Victor. Nice of you to drop in with your usual touch of cheeriness. No, I don't believe it either. :( Martinevans123 (talk) 17:46, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
It is outrageous that mangled, hideous spelling purporting to be a viable alternative should be allowed to replace our beautiful language in this encyclopaedia. That an unregistered occasional editor is able to slip it into a non-American article and then forever change the content is absurd. V. Meldrew 17:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes. Perhaps we ought to have little flag symbols - Union Flag or Stars 'n' Stripes - at the top of every European article.. with an underlying motto such as "This article loyally claimed for American readers since 2006", etc. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:08, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Mr Evans, You have just reminded me of the time when I picked up that confounded Dachshund puppy, thinking it was my 'phone. V. Meldrew 18:52, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Well, this place has certain gone to the dogs recently, I must say. But, good heavens Victor, anyone might think, from your blessed carry-on, that this was a place to project outrageous and bizarre anonymous internet personae. This is a serious and scholarly endeavour, I'll have you know. You and that pedantic drone, "Mrs Warboys", belong in a sitcom, in my opinion. As does that grotesque "Malleus Fatherjackum" Martinevans123 (talk) 19:23, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

... that grotesque "Malleus Fatherjackum" would be best placed in Waiting for God, don't you think? V. Meldrew 19:56, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
... or perhaps Waiting for a Block, one suspects. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
But which, the Sikh or the monster? Surely as the monster. V. Meldrew 21:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
It's tough oop North, especially for Sikhs (well, not really, more for non-religious marginalised Muslims in general, but never mind.. ) But old Malodorous can't be accused of being racist or sexist - you can be equally insulted regardless of racial origin or gender. It's the kind of egalitarian, equal-measured abuse that wikipedia so loves to try and keep a lid on. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
If you are talking about Malleus here, I suggest raising any concerns directly with him. He is extremely talented (and knows it) and extremely intolerant with time-wasters, but I have always found him to respond fairly to fair criticism. If you treat him with respect, he will generally reciprocate. He and I have worked on several article improvements over the years, so I suppose I am biased towards him. --John (talk) 22:31, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
And to think this thread started off so well, too. Ah yes, Malleus. I think there may be an editor of that name somewhere around here. Yes, he certainly is industrious and talented. A huge asset to the content of this project. He obviously thinks that good Wikipedia content is the most important thing. Certainly more important than fellow editors. And yes, I too have "worked with him" on a few articles. And defended him when he has been threatened with indef blocks for incivility. Which is perhaps why I was more than a little surprised to be told: "Go fix the fucking article yourself, don't try telling me what I ought to do." And that's why there is now a nice black banner at the top of this page. Concerns? not really, thanks. But I must admit my respect has rather waned. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Mine too. V. M. -- aka -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (GG-J's Talk) 09:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Victor's back

I really don't believe this. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (GG-J's Talk) 21:15, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

They built those ring-roads very tough in Ukraine, Victor. Nuclear hardened, I think - Nickita Wimpey saw to that!!.
Bah! Bloody shame they did not use IPs for central reservation and use these userboxes for kerbstones:
IPThis user is against IP editing
-- Gareth Griffith-Jones (GG-J's Talk) 21:31, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Shhh... you never know who might be watching, Victor. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:44, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Mmmm, Where's Smiley, Smiley? Just when you need him, he can't be found. (This is true ...) My next-door neighbour has just been convicted for growing and 'marketing' large quantities of "grass" in a large building at the bottom of his garden. Margaret is profoundly shocked. She claims that Pippa would have had no knowledge of what has been happening. I'm not so sure. Never liked Trench. Good riddence! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (GG-J's Talk) 22:35, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
You must mean Smiley Miley with his famous Bits and Pieces Game?!? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:42, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
That's the one! What interesting reading you gave me, Martin. I have lost my bad humour, and heard no more from Toddy, so shall sleep dreaming of Russian honeytraps. Good night. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (GG-J's Talk) 22:57, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, nos da. I am away for the weekend from tomorrow and far away from any internet access, so I won't be around for a few days. Regards and watch out for those bees with hats on Martinevans123 (talk) 23:04, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

"The" versus "the"

Did you take a look at the primary sources in evidence for lower-case? How about the historical documents from the 1960s? ~ GabeMc (talk|contribs) 00:21, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

A fair point. I was voting on the basis of what I thought was common useage today, and from a personal viewpoint. But we don't use Old English when writing about Bede, do we? I think User:Richhoncho has raised some interesting questions through his work on Trade Mark registration. I have no really strong views on the choice. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Cologne Cathedral

Both your additions to the article are good but.....

Please go back and LOOK at the gallery and read its captions.
Nothing in that gallery is randomly chosen or randomly placed. The pictures are ordered. And grouped. It's not hard to discover the order.
Please locate the two pictures adjacent to the other pictures that they relate to. e.g. details of external features, details of artworks and treasures

Amandajm (talk) 09:02, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, by all means. Might it be useful if that ordering convention was given explicitly (would probably aid the reader?), or at least given in the hidden note, like the general instruction for "top quality images"? I must say I had thought of where to place them in the text, instead of in the gallery, and could not see any obvious places. The copy of the finials could be placed in the appropriate history section but is not part of the actual construction, and could even be seen as a separate tourist attraction. Tbe Altarpiece of Agolilophus does not seem to be mentioned at all, which was a surprise in itself - the wings have only recently been restored and re-attached. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
p.s. why does the article use a lead image which is only 276 KB big? Surely a higher resolution image would be better. But perhaps there is a policy of making articles easy and quick to display, by using smaller size images, even if that makes them look slightly second-class? Oh well. Thanks.


FYI: Hi, a recently added source by Petercyrus1123 to Honorific nicknames in popular music was actually fine. He just tried to replace one of his originally added sources (tagged by myself as "dead link") with a new - active one ("Miley Cyrus Is Dracula's Daughter"), which probably seemed to appear controversial to you due to its title. It's fine, though. I have re-added the second reference to the article, while also edited the previous updating it with an active link; to keep both references. (PS: Sorry to hear you are about to retire. Guess I should also mind releasing my own book finally! Take care.) J-B (talk) 03:05, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your polite note, which helps make sense of those edits. I am still a little unconvinced, however, that "Dracula's Daughter" is an honorific name in popular music?? Is vampire a new genre? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Nope, "Dracula's Daughter" is just the title of the original article added by the mentioned user as his original source/reference, not the honorific title so-given by him for Miley Cyrus. That is "teen queen" as reads the article ("Teen queen Miley Cyrus has signed up to play Dracula's daughter in new movie Hotel Transylvania.") You should really consider retirement ,-) J-B (talk) 09:23, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
How kind. I wonder will "Peter" also reply to my question on his Talk Page. But thanks for the encouragement. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Your questions

Don't know the answer to either of those, sorry - I think WP:VPT would be the place to ask, that's where the gurus hang out. JohnCD (talk) 21:45, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks for your time, John. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:48, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

"Barging in"

Yes, it's true, I specialise in barging in, but an expert? - that's too much, sir, and I must refute the allegation with considerable vigour. All that I can claim to possess is track no.4, which is, of course, a dangerous thing - especially on here haha.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:11, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Whereas I..... track no.5. fnaar, fnaar 08:50, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Savile book

The only one that I found on eBay was here at £11.50 with four days to go. Do you have a link for the £2.96 one?--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 21:24, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

[32] as I said, you missed it, as it finished at 13.21 today. But, who knows, it might even be the same copy, haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
£39.30 plus £1.70 p&p, eh. Not a bad profit, I bet. We must have some very keen Wikipedia editors out there. And I see that two more copies now have appeared. At this rate it's a wonder that Hodder and Stoughton haven't considered a quick reprint. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:30, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Don't retire! I wonder what people would think of a List of kiddy fiddlers article. Amazon is almost always cheaper than ebay but That's plain absurd.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:57, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I imagine all proceeds will be donated to NSPCC. NOT. Am waiting patiently for the Kindle-compatible version. List of TV celebrity kiddy fiddlers looks like DYK material to me. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:15, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
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Hello, Martinevans123. You have new messages at Talk:Jimmy Savile#Awkward wording.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Your revision

Good to see that edit. Cheers! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones/GG-J's Talk 12:09, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

It's very easy to get lured back by one's watch list. So it's not a celebration of anything. In fact, things seem to be far from resolved with "FatherJackum" over at ArbCom. It's quite amazing, when you start asking around, how utterly vile some editors can be in their Talk Page comments, on a regular basis. And nothing gets done. I cannot condone Malicious Factotum-type threats and rudeness. But many other editors seem to be equally guilty of being rude for the sake of it, without making a fraction of the good contributions that Malleus has made. And then, when one sees how many edits ArbCom members have actually made in a year, it's no wonder that the community won't stomach their suggested quick (or not so quick) remedies. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:21, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it is addictive – I too am more aware these days of unpleasant behaviour when civility would result in more actual editing being carried out. The "little Hitler" syndrome is all too evident here, and as you say, they contribute rarely. All the best, Gareth
-- Gareth Griffith-Jones/GG-J's Talk 12:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
This made me laugh out loud -- Gareth Griffith-Jones/GG-J's Talk 18:03, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I wish I could laugh. I just read "Statement by MathewTownsend" at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment. I am quite appalled. I almost feel ashamed to say I'm British. I feel like reviewing my comment there about someone not deserving a ban. I really am saddened by that. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:36, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
MathewTownsend is only a youngster. The barnstar episode here is dreadful. Shameful. I am of the opinion that you should revise your comment. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones/GG-J's Talk 19:06, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I am sure it would make very little difference to what gets decided over there, if anything ever does get decided. I'd sooner find some abandoned articles to quietly freshen up. Yes, that Mathew seems to be relatively young, but his User Page looks quite admirable - and it shows how enthusiastic and committed he is. Ok, so he may make mistakes, but he's obviously sincere and genuine, which are qualities sometimes a little lacking in older editors! I am surprised that Mr Wales has not said something yet about all this - but then I guess he hasn't made enough GAs to be allowed to tell someone to "F off". At least Dennis Brown is trying to calm it all down a bit. I think he's about the best Admin we've seen in ages. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
You need to be very careful about believing anything MathewTownsend says; he has rather a vivid imagination and apparently no real sense of the truth. Malleus Fatuorum 19:12, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
(edit conflict) this may help. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones/GG-J's Talk 19:20, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much Gareth. I have now read that page in full. Looks like Mathew admitted he made a mistake there, but didn't get much credit for doing so.
Ah! But I see we have a surprise guest who wants to tell us about "a sense of the truth". Well, we already know about the choice between truth and verifiability at an encyclopedia such as this. But luckily we do have a very comprehensive article - might even get to "GA" status one day? If only it were in the queue. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:22, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
... but as you're here, Mr Fool Hammer, and are hankering after Tonite's Star Prize - two more questions spring to mind, which are not so rhetorical: 1. "Do you think you should be banned, for the good of Wikipedia?" and 2. "Do you ever apologise, for anything?" I'm sorry they're not "multiple choice". Martinevans123 (talk) 20:45, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Mathew received much the same the treatment as I received following a genuine formatting "cock-up" caused by an 'automatic Wikipedia editor' on an article you know all too well.
-- Gareth Griffith-Jones/GG-J's Talk 21:01, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I really don't know how Mathew's "unintentional remove of his Tickle Cock Bridge" happened. I see that another editor in that discussion thought that his "hypocritical and insulting comments started this mess", but it's not clear to me what comments they were, or why he wasn't stopped in his tracks straight away (if that really was the start of that particular mess). I'm afraid that I'm not very well read on that article you mention - I was rather put off the subject by a rather unpleasant experience at Pendle! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:12, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
If you can find a way to ask your questions more respectfully then I'll consider answering them. Until then ... Malleus Fatuorum 00:22, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Oh, I do wish I had placed my bet – that he would be impelled to comment. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones/GG-J's Talk 06:43, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
"lol" ... still searching. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:22, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
But now the far more polite, slightly abridged versions (as recommended by Edward's kindly old Scottish tutor): 1. "Do you think you should be banned?" and 2. "Do you ever apologise?" Answer in any order. Extra sheets of paper are available from the invigilator. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Hive of knuckle- dragging malice

Box-cutter.jpgThis user reads Wikipediocracy

Cripes, you ask a simple question and look what happens.. Highlight so far include:

  • "Den of maggots"
  • "Fuckwit mothers doing strange things with vegetables?" wow, horticultural conflict - is that you under there??
  • "Cut Wikimedia UK peoples' throats with a boxcutter"
  • "Sit there sniveling and lying like the little hypocrite you probably are"
  • "Quick exercise that involved stripping"

Mev, you've outdone yourself

Yes, biological accuracy not their strong point, is it. Bees with knuckles? Maggots in a den? Whatever next!
In fact, you can choose from the wikipediocracy-approved list below:
  • Nest of rubber zombies.
  • Lodge of flithy Clarksons.
  • Parliament of moronic amoeba. ...arhh, St Neil of Brussels, "I models myself after 'im, I do. Tidy."
  • Bench of swivel-eyed lunes.
  • Cage of flightless lamebrains.

Heads up

I assumed this was a mistake and have reverted, if not please re-do and drop me an e-mail. Mtking (edits) 17:21, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Looks like Martin was probably saving your butt ... best if you remove it yourself BWilkins (✉→←✎) 17:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Sincere apologies, don't recall making that one. Must have been a mistake, or my unruly mouse again, or possibly even both. I have no interest in America's Top Model, alas. Nor even MMA fan-boys, whoever they are. But it seems the result you wanted was achieved. Not a Luke Reinhart trial edit, I can assure you, honest guv'. Best regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:15, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
It appeared to me (and presumably to BWilkins) that you were doing the decent thing and trying to keep User:Mtking out of the dung heap. AAll the best! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones/The Welsh Buzzard 09:35, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
"That's mighty white of you" (.. as Mr Obama would say, no doubt). I see now - Empty King was "All Mucked Up". But great talking to a real Bwncath! whatever next!? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:25, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
So you approve of my new moniker or is it a call sign? Ugh! American English to avoid the redirect. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones/The Welsh Buzzard 20:15, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


I noticed your username commenting at an Arbcom discussion regarding civility. An effort is underway that would likely benefit if your views were included. I hope you will append regards at: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Civility enforcement/Questionnaire Thank you for considering this request. My76Strat (talk) 11:01, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Not sure how I "append regards". Looks like it might take more then five minutes! But it's very nice to be aaked, thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for considering the request. The questionnaire is a bit long, but it doesn't have to be completed within any specific time frame, or at all for that matter. You can skip questions, choose not to answer some, and spread your edits over several days if you prefer. I appreciate you willingness, and your favorable response. Cheers, My76Strat (talk) 12:44, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

"Wet seat"

Thanks for clarifying this in the Earl of Warwick article! I added this in a bit of a haste... Ha ha! Regards, Tryde (talk) 10:54, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

No worries. Easily done... easily fixed (although am always very tempted to leave these kind of amusing ambiguities!) Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:05, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Problematic IP

I see that Kudpung has already taken care of it. [33] Thanks for letting me know! bibliomaniac15 18:42, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Yes, User:Kudpung is very diligent. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Dave Brubeck Quartet (album)

You may be right about the 1952 date. Does your source list the recording date, or the release date? Regarding the catalog #, both the record jacket, record label, and Billboard review list it as 3-7. I believe that to be the original catalog number, so I am adding it back in, along with the cat# you list. Thanks! 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 21:03, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Further comment: Is 3230 a 12" LP? You took out my 10" reference, but it was common for companies to re-package earlier 10" material, add two tracks, and release as 12". Sometimes they'd issue a 10" and a 12" simultaneously, probably just to confuse future generations. 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 21:06, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
You are quite right, my sincere apologies - I think the 10" would have been the original. Have added another source at the Talk Page - that Vogue cover looks simply cracking! I wonder if it might be copyright free for fair use? Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:10, 10 December 2012 (UTC)


Thank you for the quick pickup here. What is it with these people? Another similar but less destructive lot the previous day too. I was glad to see you classified it as vandalism - it seems to go beyond a simple misunderstanding into some form of spite, a very deliberate act. Very sad. (Goes and makes tea.) Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 09:32, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

I must admit that, on reflection, I thought I might have been a little too harsh. At least part of that edit coud be explained as a good faith attempt to make the article easier for US readers. But some of the other parts... well, I'm really not too sure. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:36, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Well, quite. I tend to try to AGF when possible but I found the detail of what was done a bit eyebrow-raising and came down on the side of something more directed. Not that it actually matters what I think of that editor, of course ...but thank you for the opportunity to moan. :) Cheers DBaK (talk) 11:46, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


You need to participate at User talk:Senra#Churches in Bedfordshire. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 09:45, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

  • My apologies, but I was wholly unaware of this discussion. If I had been, I certainly would not have made any contributions, I'm afraid. I stumbled across that article for the flrst time last night, with no prior interest or particular view. Please feel free to undo any or all of my edits. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:12, 12 December 2012 (UTC) (p.s. by the way, my own personal view is that there should be two totally separate articles for the two churches, both with complete church info boxes, and which both refer to each other as appropriate... but that's just an idea, thanks)
    • Apologies? I'm pointing you there because it seems that you could help, particularly in (but not limited to) the money discussion. Uncle G (talk) 13:12, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
      • Oh, I see. No worries. I tend to see the phrase "edit war" and I'm afraid I have this debilitating knee-jerk aversive reaction... I'll try and have a look. But my edits are all just little tidy-up ideas really. Thank you for your courtesy and patience. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:51, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Transmigration Macabre

I thought discogs was more of a marketplace than reliable source. If you think you can intregrate that information in a sensible manner (and perhaps with a better source?) then please go ahead. If you do, please put it in chronologically and in a way that does not make it look disjointed (I didn't plan the text to go through most individual albums, because an Indian classical musician is not measured by those, but what do I know.). But that's merely a wish, I don't own the article. Regards Hekerui (talk) 18:58, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

(ec)Thanks. I'm sure there are other sources. But I was unhappy myself with it heading the 1970s paragraph, as it is only a single album. Perhaps it is worth an article of its own - one of the finest records in my collection! (and the only Shankar, I have to say). I am still very intrigued by that UK film "Viola" and had assumed it would already have an article here too. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:05, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


LOL see 1:38.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 14:54, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Jack Russell

Hi. Disambiguation pages are purely for distinguishing between Wikipedia articles on similarly-named subjects. Please read WP:DAB to understand it better. The obvious solution here is to start an article on the playwright (assuming he is notable enough), but until then, he can't appear in the disambiguation page, so I'm reverting again. Cheers. Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 22:34, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's a shame really. But rules are rules, aren't they. Yes, obvious, we don't have red links anywhere, do we. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:56, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't often see red links in dab pages; if there are any they should go. Red links in articles, lists, etc. are a different matter. Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 23:00, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
I've replied to your message on my talk page. Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 23:00, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I know Martinevans123 (talk) 23:02, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
But I often do, e.g. Thomas White. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:28, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Keeping British

I am thinking that you might like to add to this conversation –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones/The Welsh Buzzard 16:24, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

A very good question. Have made a few ornamental additions there! (apologies). But thanks. I actually totally agree with Ghmyrtle, (as usual). Martinevans123 (talk) 17:17, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I noticed, and our nemesis has been there after you too. Thank you for posting there.  –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 18:01, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Well I do tend to agree (mostly) with Father Jackum on this occasion, I must say. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Good 'old' STFG is on his case now –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 19:14, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I will be interested to see the reasoning behind that. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Being his usual charming self, I see –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 19:27, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Groan. "Do you not have access to inter-personal skills??" Martinevans123 (talk) 19:33, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I love the incunsistency between 16:07 and 17:40. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:42, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Haha yes, and it's only 17.40! I am very glad to see a little ironic humour from ArtLaPella. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Church Grizzly? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Have you seen Stfg's splendid reply to Father Grizzly Jackum? It caused me to "lol" –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 12:46, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

─────────────────────────lol indeed. Well, thankfully that's a lot less hazardous that some duelling weapons. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:08, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

I had considered Wellie bashing at dawn –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 18:14, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Hush please, I prithee, good Lord Buzzard! no further mention of the "W" apparel .. or it might set old "Uncle Gumboot" onto us poor chapel lads once more. Let's stick to such wholesome country pastimes as Dwile flonking. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:21, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Ha, Ha, Ha! Priceless link. Thanks for that ... how do you find them?
Nasty old Uncle Gumboot, eh! More appropriate than FJ.
He would be good at munching lots of these. –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 18:44, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
A cheer goes up! Hooray!! so ungracious, even in defeat, haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:50, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Ah, "But I will now leave you to your childish ramblings." ... now I understand your last edit summary –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 19:29, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Alas yes. I think it must have been Stfg's pop-guns that tipped him over the edge there. But I really must get a dictionary. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:01, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes I have one which is useful in this Wikipediaworld –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:13, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that looks very useful. Apologies for my tardiness in replying, but glued (as ever) to a truely incredible Strictly, where Bruno just made what was, I think, the comment of the series. rofl. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:16, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
A fanny club comment –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 08:01, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes indeed. I know it's rather unfashionable to like Bruno's over-the-top Latin outrageousness and innuendo, but I find him very entertaining and witty. It's one of my favourite old-fashioned Music Hall variety-type programmes! Even Craig's "Pantomime-Dame-on-Crack" persona can be quite funny at times. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:27, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes daahling, but you have not mentioned bally-judge Nasality –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 11:21, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
She's utterly gorgeous. And that's a fine Cab Sauv nose in my book! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
The lady that has stolen my heart is the one from Napoli. Now, if I were a younger man ... wearing younger men's clothes ... who knows what might happen eh?  –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 12:14, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, she's hot stuff too! There are specialist websites, you know, for that younger man's clothing thing... Martinevans123 (talk) 12:18, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
la mia seduttrice italiano, and our Welsh beauty doing an amazing jive ... together in the same show ... Phew!
Now to this clothing issue. I suppose you are talking about "e-buy" and traipsing down to Cornwall –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:17, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Phew-alicious! I did not even know that heavenly Catherine could dance. (I think you need go not as far as Cornwall.) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Neither did I. Wasn't she sexy!
Now then, put your money on who's to win. I'm backing ... (that was the irritating "dramatic" wait ...) this couple –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 21:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
"That quiet passage was just way too way dramatic for me, darhling!!" I thought the excitement had finally got to you.. (gulp). Well, of course, you would say that. And Louis is pretty damn good (that jive was incredible). Dani and Vincent should win for being so cute. I personally want Denise and James to win because Denise is so sweet and unpretentious (and a brilliant dancer). But I predict that, unless something truely terrible happens, Kimberely and Pasha will win. Kimbererly is technically the better dancer (but she is too much of a s'leb for me, haha.) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

A week later ...
My choice (see above) won. Sorry for you, Martin, losing the bet –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 22:13, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
I know, but their show dance, to Take That's "Rule the World", was quite spectacular. All three final dances were amazing. So overwhelming, very emotional, just brilliant. But Denise still my favourite! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Earl Hines

Well done M.E. - you seem to have found the right Church organ page for Hines in Duquesne - Happy Xmas [I never know how to do those multiple-meaning things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tolesi (talkcontribs) 16:55, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

No worries, Tolesi. If only we had an image! (disambig links are very easy, by the way). Very Happy Christmas to you too. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


Thank you very much! I know I'm not a professional contributer who can setup up whole articles but I will do my best and I'm sure I'll get some help of the others here! :) --Maplerocker (talk) 23:37, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Haha, I'm not even sure whether I am "a professional contributer who can setup up whole articles"! Don't worry, you will get plenty of help. If you enjoy contributing, you will be surprised at how your contributions will soon grow and mature. All the very best. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:44, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

In Your Own Sweet Way

Looks good! Thanks!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 10:02, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

No worries. I'm hoping that fellow Brubeck editor "78" may be able to clarify on which album it first appeared. A full Brubeck discography with track listing will probably show us. Cheers. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:13, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Page stalking here. Wasn't aware of this discussion. Am I correct in assuming you're looking to find the first album release containing In Your Own Sweet Way? If so, what leads you to believe that Brubeck Plays Brubeck may be incorrect? 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 19:42, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for stalking in - any time. I was going to ask you (honest). I am led only by that reference that I have borrowed in the article [34] and by a quick skim through here. Could you possibly enlighten us further? Thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:47, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
I'll need to look through my sources, I might not get to it until tonight or possibly tomorrow night. I don't think he recorded it for Fantasy, though. You should be forewarned I can't make any particular claim to being a Brubeck expert. 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 19:52, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, again 78. A second look, from a "non-expert", is often more useful, I think, But then, I'm no expert... (ad infinitum... to run out groove). Martinevans123 (talk) 19:55, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
OK, I have checked. As near as I can tell the earliest release is indeed from Brubeck Plays Brubeck This was recorded on either April 18 or 19, 1956. However, the earliest recording is from February of 1956. It was recorded at the "Basin Street Club" in New York city during a concert. It was released much later on the Jazz Band label. Hope that helps. [35] 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 22:05, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Great work, 78. Do you want to add that in or shall I? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:45, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Seeing as neither of us was rushing to do it, I've gone ahead and added this in. Please review, I think my prose is a bit clunky. Thanks! And the Happiest of Happy New Years to you. 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 18:11, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Many thanks. Looks fine to me. Very best wishes to you also. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:21, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Jazzstubartwork.svg The Jazzman Award of Excellence
For your diligent work on the article In Your Own Sweet Way. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 13:00, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Now this is a (wholly undeserved) award that I can certainly live with!! Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Well you did a good job rearranging the content to make it look like you'd significantly expanded it LOL. The Blagger Award might be more suitable.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 14:42, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Yay!! Will celebrate with my own private bag of sheep nuts. ROFB = "rolling on floor, bleating". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:06, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand what your issue is

I have a feeling that one of us is missing something fundamental. A time span, as I understand the term, is a span of time, like an hour, a year, or a second. A fixed period of time with a beginning, middle and end. The Maya believe that we are living in the fourth creation, so our current creation began after a certain span of time. General opinion among Mayanist scholars is that the time span after which our world began (ie the third creation) is roughly 5,125 years, usually represented as Stela 1 at Coba presents the date of creation as etc., which would suggest either that a) the previous creation lasted for that amount of time, rather than the generally accepted 5,125 years, or b) the 13s are meant to be read as 0s, and that the number represents the eventual lifespan of the current creation. I don't think I can make this any clearer. Serendipodous 17:10, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Seren, for your patience and perseverance. I think I understand now (maybe). We've only got until Thursday anyway, apparently. I'll doubt we'll get that article to GA or even DYK by then... (sob) Martinevans123 (talk) 19:10, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

This week's useful definition .... (?)

Peanut Gallery A peanut gallery was, in the days of vaudeville, a nickname for the cheapest (and ostensibly rowdiest) seats in the theater, which was all too willing [in the view of the performer] to heckle the performer."

...."Grizzly Evans?? I recognise that name, and I can remember exactly why he upset me!" .... bless.

... and not too far away (recently) from here –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:13, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
... how true. So maybe not vaudeville after all... Martinevans123 (talk) 20:28, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
... Surely, calling someone a fool is uncivil only if one intends to hammer them? They could just give him his own page. But what do I know, I'm just good with sheep, apparently. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:12, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
... gosh, now that IS a surprise!! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:23, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
...I'm betting he just wants to hear everyone praying "Oh Father, we can't bear it. Please pardon our trespasses" –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 19:44, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, I must try and fish out those old rosary beads from down the back of the sofa. Still, at least we have the Wiki Christmas Panto to look forward to.... (synopsis does look a bit challenging tho)... Martinevans123 (talk) 20:00, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Can I play Sir Nobonk, crazy knight, who knights people for no apparent reason? What about you? –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:16, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
King of the Twyts looks quite inviting. Quite a lot of folk are (constantly) after The Judge, apparently... (luvvie) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
But who could be The Werkling, the head werker in the Ning Nang Nong? –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:28, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Crumbs. I think we'd need an election for that one. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:30, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Oh, I could not bear that either. All those Supports and Opposes –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:45, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Not to mention the forced abstentions. Good job there's no politics around here, on such an ernest and august encyclopedia, eh? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:52, 20 December 2012 (UTC) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:52, 20 December 2012 (UTC)


Thank you! The world has not ended, after all. Wow, nice signature there... and very nice Winter Solstice image. (If you look very carefully, in those bushes to the right, you'll see my good friend, America's Queen of Country attending to my druidical robes.. )Martinevans123 (talk) 00:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
Ha, ha! I thought she died. What a difference one consonant makes; "fiend/friend". Do you know R.E.M.'s record that links from here? What do think of the video? –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 18:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
A good pop song, but a rather mundane video. Dog just steals it I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:05, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
Are R.E.M. considered eminent in your estimation? –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:02, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
I have none of their stuff, But this album was a classic that produced quite a few classic singles. I don't really like Stipe's vocal style, but at least you can hear what he's saying, and the lyrics can be quite poetic. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:12, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
But here's some classic 70s orchestral funk that you might find a little more palatable (great brass section, by the way): [36] A great video too. I think it was used in a film, haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:56, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
That is good. Eumir Deodato is new to me although he seems to have been constantly producing since the early 1960s right up to 2010. –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 22:54, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
I think he's much bigger in Brazil than he's ever been anywhere else. But if you want some musical genius bred closer to home... try Syd's mates. I remember listening to this the very first time it was premiered on wonderful 247. I was transported to a different mental region. And, to tell you the truth.. I never came back. Oh well. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:31, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I have just linked and only heard the first opening seconds – it is 25 minutes long! Will go back to listen to it tomorrow morning.
Why does Stan want me to play R.E.M.tomorrow? Too late I played it this afternoon and again a short while ago –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 23:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

If I were you, I'd set aside a day to listen to that! But it can be consumed in smaller parts with equally satisfactory results, I'm sure. R.E.M? .. "Really Expectant Mayans", maybe! Martinevans123 (talk) 00:02, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
And this deserves its own Wiki article! Utterly wonderful. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:50, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks you two!! Have a great Christmas both of you and may we not celebrate Christmas Day underwater!!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 13:36, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

'Tis the season to be jolly....

Fa la la la la, la la la la.... etc. etc. etc.. Anyway.....

Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:21, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Wow, AC/DC never sounded better... Kerraaanngg!!! What an innovation. Wonderful tacky, shall treasure, haha. Many thanks. (um, my greeting is still in the post...) Martinevans123 (talk) 13:17, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Haha love it, have a great Christmas!!!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 13:37, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

In Your Own Sweet Way needs 0. 2kb to pass requirements, reckon you can find some more material in google books or something?♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 21:45, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Haha, was already on the hunt! Hope so. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
I have replied to you here and pl read my es for my Talk just now addressed to your good self! –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 00:07, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
"The Svengali may feign kindness and use manipulation to get the other person to yield his or her authority." yep... sounds quite familiar! haha Martinevans123 (talk) 18:44, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Season's tidings!

Christmas lights - 1.jpg

To you and yours, Have a Merry ______ (fill in the blank) and Happy New Year! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 15:30, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. All the best for 2013. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
I too would like to offer you, and your family, all the season's best. Have a good one. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:08, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy holidays!

Evergreens covered in snow in Nebraska.jpg Happy Holidays!
From the frozen wasteland of Nebraska, USA! MONGO 12:15, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy Boxing Day! - I thought this person had gone ...

... and what a bloody cheek; I just happened to notice this
Cheers! –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 10:09, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

How very odd. I suppose it must be some long-standing grudge (not that he ever keeps grudges, of course.) But it seems very petty. Who knows. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

A small parcel for Mr Evans

Good day to you, Mr Evans. I was told that the Moomins were unavailable for yuletide greetings this year, which has in part contributed to the tardiness in gift-giving on my part. (Also I've had such dreadful problems with the problem that I really haven't been myself at all). Anyway, after much head-scratching, I decided to add a historical flavour this year (thinking back to the oranges and cloves of yesteryear), and opted for some sweet and juicy fruit, these particular ones being a speciality of mine (I'm sure you'll agree). Enjoy!

Doris' delectable dish
Damson plums
Greengage plums
Mirabelle plums
Victoria plums

(My thought was that you might like to use them to cleanse your palette, after the inevitable excesses of recent days.)

Sincerely yours, Mrs Doris Fyne-Plums (talk)
Trust you both will enjoy this little token, a favourite performance of Baby, it's Cold Outside, for your holiday amusement ... and for contrast, I offer this rendering of my absolute favourite carol. Cheers!
Gareth Griffith-Jones – The WelshBuzzard – 09:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
(talk page stalker)The lip sync. is terrific, esp the "girl" -- Ebrillcawodydd 09:28, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
How charming to hear from cantankerous old Doris at this plum-pudding time of year. It's great to see that, with the help of her amazing "F-plan diet" she has now slimmed down to a svelte 26 stones. Come the new year, I was thinking of organising a reunion of al the old gang - including king of the sarcastic edit summary DireCriticMark, medical expert Dr.O.Farr-Kinnel, the fashion icon Moomin-in-a-Cleopatra-wig and even dear old classics master Knucklehead-McSpazatron. I must say those plums look very inviting! p.s. Gareth - what a very touching tribute by Lance Armstrong and Bradley Wiggins. But I did spot one of those tasty wigs on the "younger man's clothing" website you mentioned a while back. Spooky. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:17, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Ha, ha, ha!! You are on top form this morning.
The record ... is it Donald Faison and Zach Braff, who are singing. I like my father's version with our girl, don't you? –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 10:53, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Tom and Cerys make a lovely couple, it must be said. But I know nothing about Donald Faison and Zach Braff - so thanks! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:31, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Martin, did you notice that I have changed "my favourite carol" to my absolute favourite carol? You now have the beautiful poem by Christina Rossetti written some time before 1872, together with Harold Darke's, haunting anthem of 1909 – together truly wonderful.
- Gareth Griffith-Jones – The WelshBuzzard15:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes indeed, although I think that's the Holst arrangement (which I actually prefer). Martinevans123 (talk) 16:24, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Another request

I my haste to produce Gianni Mochetti I mis-spelled his name in the article title! It should be Mocchetti instead of Mochetti. I have never attempted an article re-name and I was wondering if you might be able to help? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:58, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Yo, Martin, I've gone ahead and done this for you. The old title redirects to the new one. let me know if I introduced any more spelling errors.
In the interest of teaching a man to fish, you can rename a page (technically called moving it) by going to the page and clicking on the "Move" link; this will be in the menu marked with a down arrow in the top-right corner, next to the search bar, if you're in the normal Wikipedia skin. If you're using Monobook, then it should be one of the tabs in the right corner. This will take you to the move page screen, where you can type in the new title and an edit summary; be sure to look at the namespace selector next to the title field, using "(Article)" for the main article space. There are some other checkbox options; they can be useful in certain situations, but the default should be fine for most main article space moves. Keep in mind that the move process will also create a redirect at the old title, pointing to the new one; admins have the option to suppress creation of this redirect, but non-admins do not, so if the redirect makes no sense to have, you need to mark it for speedy deletion with something like the {{db-g6}} (uncontroversial housecleaning or maintenance) tag. Thanks! Writ Keeper 14:12, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Many thanks, WK. That's the type of tps it's very good to have around! I'll copy over your very useful advice to my own Talk Page. Thanks again. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:17, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Advice you asked for

I'm afraid I took you at you word about a few more days not mattering. That's a funny situation: normally the occasional interloper who claims personal knowledge would be trying to put things in, and would have to be educated about WP:NOR; but here they are taking things out, and when you come down to it the words "friend" and "official" are unsourced and matters of opinion, so if they are in dispute I would be inclined to leave them out and see if things settle down that way. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 22:24, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, that was exactly my take on it too. Things seem to settle down for six months at a time! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:36, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


Check out this and this, especially 34:40, amazing.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 14:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Very neat. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:27, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
And, talking of fine musicians.. this is the sort of song that can make you weep the first time you ever hear it (and for all the right reasons!): [37]. There is such a simple honesty here. Reminds me very much of the early Richard and Linda Thompson Martinevans123 (talk) 18:29, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

New Year's Eve

iechyd a lwc dda i chi ac yn eich blwyddyn annwyl nesaf
Gareth Griffith-Jones – The WelshBuzzard – 09:12, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
"Diolch yn fawr. Hoffwn i chi i gyd y gorau ar gyfer 2013!!" Martinevans123 (talk) 21:27, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Trying to trick me with the dark blue script that you are hyperlinking. It worked ... Gareth Griffith-Jones – The WelshBuzzard – 22:23, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Haha. Not at all. Just trying to keep up with the colourful Joneses! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Highly creative. You missed your vocation-
Gareth Griffith-Jones – The WelshBuzzard –
Indeed. I've got the frilly lace cuffs to prove it!! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:49, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
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