User talk:Fram

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Added source to Microsoft Musical Instruments

I added a source to Microsoft Musical Instruments and deleted the deletion template. Sk8erkid182 (talk) 16:56, 10 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion of my article

Hello. Not sure if you had noticed, the article that you had nominated for speedy deletion has a infobox informing that it's beeing worked at. Thereof, instead of removing it, it would be nice to let it become developed thru time Mcgiwer (talk) 15:55, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have seen way too often that that infobox is only used as a way to avoid new page patrolling and get it past most scrutiny. I checked online if the topic was notable, which it isn't (e.g. nothing in Google news, very little in Google in general). Feel free to provide a few reliable, independent sources about the website if I'm wrong. Fram (talk) 15:58, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's a bit late as I've deleted it. Mcgiwer, if you wish to "develop" an article over time, then use draft space, not article space.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:59, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Request to delete page.

Hi sir Can you delete the one which moved to draft of Maldives national under-20 football team. Its was my unknown mistake. I was out of network then I have submitted some statistics the first article then I seen their is two article of now. I will add now 2nd article some statis. Thanks God bless you. MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 10:04, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi

Why did you removed second page. In Wikipedia many articles which remains with short information. I am very shock about it. Thanks.

If there is very little to sy about a subject, but it can be included as a subtopic in a larger article, then it is often better to combine articles. The U20 team hardly played, and is not really notable, and it is rather useless to have long tables for championships where they didn't ever compete: but including this information in the main article explains why we don't have a separate article (not enough info) but still can show the little bit we have. Fram (talk) 10:51, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please remove the redirect tag I will re create it about it six months back. MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 12:18, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't understand what you're saying here. Fram (talk) 13:07, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I want to the page get back a reviewer was review the page now. So please remove redirect tag. MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 13:16, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@MD Hydrogen 123,
As mentioned on my talk page, I simply evaluated whether it was a valid redirect, not whether the page should be a redirect or not. Me having marked the page as patrolled (at the time of my viewing) has no impact on whether the page should be a redirect or not. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:24, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can you tell me can I get the original page back. I am new I don't understanding much about it. Thanks boss. MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 13:26, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can you tell me why you think this team, which played a few games in 2018 and none before or after, should get a full page with empty tables instead of just one paragraph in the larger article? What is the issue with the current situation? Fram (talk) 13:28, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I will update much more Fram let me get back it. I didn't got time before I edit you removed it? MD Hydrogen 123 (talk) 13:32, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You can work in Draft:Maldives women's national under-20 football team for as long as you need, then you can show me what you actually think you can achieve with it. Fram (talk) 13:36, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1540s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1540s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:08, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1560s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1560s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1570s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1570s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1700s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1700s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1710s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1710s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello, Fram,
Many editors who create a lot of categories have asked me NOT to notify them when categories they have created become empty. If you would like me to omit these CSD C1 messages just let me know and you'll stop receiving them. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 02:34, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You didn't reply to my query so I'll keep posting messages to your talk page about empty categories you have created in the past. Liz Read! Talk! 18:59, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alexander Bagrationi

Hi Fram -- Deprodded this; I thought chess grandmasters were deemed notable. It seems to have been marked as patrolled, despite a complete lack of categories -- I never know how to check who did this? Did you patrol it, or did I do it accidentally somehow? Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 00:28, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1090s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1090s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 18:59, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1530s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1530s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:07, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1535 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1535 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:09, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1540 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1540 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:13, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1545 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1545 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:14, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1564 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1564 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:15, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1579 disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1579 disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:20, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1580s disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1580s disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:22, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:16th-century disestablishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:16th-century disestablishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:30, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1720s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1720s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:33, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1790s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1790s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:40, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

List of people on the postage stamps of X

I'm joining the club on prodding or AFDing all these "List of people on the postage stamps of X". Where the hell did all these lists come from? They're right up there with all the obscure two-episode reality shows I'm finding that got no RS coverage. Props to you for finding another treasure trove of cruft to clean up. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 17:13, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikipedia is stuffed with such walled gardens with one or two editors wanting to keep them (and in this case simultaneously not interested in developing them somehow). Fram (talk) 08:55, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And of course this isn't limited to articles, you also get weird inclusions of trivia because one or two people take an interest, like the descriptions of the last meals of death row inmates[1]. Why anyone would think this is essential or appropriate in a biography of a criminal is not clear, but there you go... Fram (talk) 13:14, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We had 6 entries for countries starting with a T, including rather major ones like Thailand and Turkey. One was already at AfD, and none of the other 5 was worth keeping arund any longer, so all have been Prod'ded. One of the worst groups of lists I have found so far. Fram (talk) 09:40, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you look at the history of Lists of people on postage stamps, you can see that it was created in 2002 by User:Eclecticology, who sadly passed away in 2016; I first saw the list in 2003, liked the idea, and expanded on it, along with a number of others, as is evident from the history. One thing you don't see anywhere in the early discussion is notability; in that time period editors were encouraged to try all kinds of experiments to grow Wikipedia, and the value of listing notable people appearing on stamps seemed so obvious it never even came up as an issue. So now with the passage of time, it looks more like a failed experiment, and that's OK. I see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on stamps of Hungary from 2011 was almost all keeps; curious as to how a second attempt would go, many of the participants from back then are now gone. Stan (talk) 01:23, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1190s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1190s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:58, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1340s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1340s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:58, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1390s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1390s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 19:59, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1400s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1400s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 20:00, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1430s establishments in Germany

A tag has been placed on Category:1430s establishments in Germany indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 20:00, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Quick note

Hi Fram, I think you pasted the wrong link (a Google Books URL) in your latest edit to ANI. DanCherek (talk) 12:37, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just checking if anyone reads my posts... Thanks, a leftover link from my previous post, now corrected! Fram (talk) 12:40, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah the amount of times I've pasted the wrong thing because I forgot what was in my clipboard. Canterbury Tail talk 12:47, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As long as it's nothing embarassing ;-) Fram (talk) 12:55, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

List of years in Liechtenstein

Hello Fram, did you just recently delete the article titled List of years in Liechtenstein? There is practically an article for every country in the world titled List of years in [country], and this was the one I just created for Liechtenstein, the last European nation without one. Was something wrong with the article? A tag with the article says it is "unsourced," so I could potentially add a citation saying Liechtenstein was founded in the year 1866? This is the fourth list of years article I have created for a country, as this is just my area of interest on Wikipedia. What do I need to do for this article? Thanks!--Johnson524 (talk) 19:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would like to mention as well that these articles are more of a template than anything. You can go to other long running list of year articles such as List of years in France, which has been active since 2013 with no citations. That is kind of just the layout of these kind of articles.--Johnson524 (talk) 19:29, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sorry Fram, at the time I wrote this I thought the article was already deleted and that you deleted it because of the unsourced tag or something. This is no longer, and was never really, relevant at all 😅 -- Johnson524 (talk) 12:34, 23 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No problem. I don't agree with the list, but I have no issue with your message! Fram (talk) 12:37, 23 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Page Patrol newsletter May 2022

Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg
New Page Review queue March 2022

Hello Fram,

At the time of the last newsletter (No.26, September 2021), the backlog was 'only' just over 6,000 articles. In the past six months, the backlog has reached nearly 16,000, a staggering level not seen in several years. A very small number of users had been doing the vast majority of the reviews. Due to "burn-out", we have recently lost most of this effort. Furthermore, several reviewers have been stripped of the user right for abuse of privilege and the articles they patrolled were put back in the queue.

Several discussions on the state of the process have taken place on the talk page, but there has been no action to make any changes. The project also lacks coordination since the "position" is vacant.

In the last 30 days, only 100 reviewers have made more than 8 patrols and only 50 have averaged one review a day. There are currently 728 New Page Reviewers, but about a third have not had any activity in the past month. All 1032 administrators have this permission, but only about a dozen significantly contribute to NPP.

This means we have an active pool of about 450 to address the backlog. We cannot rely on a few to do most of the work as that inevitably leads to burnout. A fairly experienced reviewer can usually do a review in a few minutes. If every active reviewer would patrol just one article per day, the backlog would very quickly disappear.

If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, do suggest they help the effort by placing {{subst:NPR invite}} on their talk page.

If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
Sent 05:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on the postage stamps of Burundi

Is two a new record for the fewest amount of people on one of these "List of people on the postage stamps of X" lists? Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 04:52, 24 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nope, had one empty list, one with only one (wrong) entry, and one or two others with two. Amazing, isn't it, how these have been created over many years, by different editors (including one current admin), and nearly all have the same issues? Fram (talk) 07:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Which one was the empty one? Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 00:11, 25 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Don't remember, I think one for the Portuguese Colonies. Fram (talk) 07:02, 25 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Youth Olympics

In light of our prior 2018 discussion re: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Naomi Duncan, along with the also nominated Amy Lawton and Courtney Schonell, please see the following articles in the NPP queue and share your thoughts:

  1. Hungary women's national under-19 volleyball team,
  2. Hungary women's national under-21 volleyball team,
  3. France women's national under-19 volleyball team,
  4. France women's national under-21 volleyball team,
  5. Romania women's national under-21 volleyball team, and no telling how many more that are similar. Are we still deleting underage athletes?

Please ping me when you've had a chance to review & comment re: the above. Atsme 💬 📧 16:54, 26 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why, after spending frustrating hours trying to explain to you the most basic aspects of sport, would I want to spend any time on giving my thoughts to you unrelated articles about teams (not individuals) in the NPP queue? The worrying thing to me is that you are doing NPP, not these articles. I just checked some other previous interactions, and your completely misguided edit warring at Wikipedia:Notability (sports) yesterday, on a topic you don't know enough about. Fram (talk) 07:59, 27 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
First of all, I was not edit warring which demonstrates how much you know. Secondly, my knowledge about equestrian sports places me at expert level, and I disagree with quite a few of the other positions you've taken. I came here in GF but I see now, it was wasted time. Your condescension is noted, and speaks volumes to your judgement, not mine. Atsme 💬 📧 12:43, 27 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Your edit, reverted, your reinsertion. How is this not edit warring? I note your opinion of your own expertise, and I see that your proposal (the one you edit warred over) gets near universal opposition. So I'm quite confident in my judgment here, considering that you apparently don't know the difference between individual athletes and teams (question above, earlier discussions), and neither do you know the difference between athletes and competitions. Like you say, wasted time. Fram (talk) 12:57, 27 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Lovely to see how in that talk page discussion, you seem to believe that everyone, every single one, is confused about what they are voting about, and are opposing JoelleJays change (which you don't seem to understand either) instead of your proposal; when it is equally obvious for anyone else that people have read your proposal (and seen your changes at the notability page), and are clearly opposing your proposal. I don't know what your issue is, but it shows that it isn't just me who has serious troubles communicating with you. Fram (talk) 13:02, 27 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have no issues with communication, Fram, so let's don't go down that road. What needs scrutiny is your conduct when interacting with other editors, especially female editors; it hasn't been ideal. I came here in GF because I truly wanted your input and in return, with no provocation on my part, you've been condescending, unfairly critical, and have misrepresented my recent edits based on your own misinterpretations, poor judgment and obvious lack of knowledge about equestrian notability and equine sports in general. I take full responsibility for forgetting about your treatment of me & others in the past, but it won't happen again. It's also quite sad that I now have to explain edits that have nothing to do with my initial reason for coming here. Your misguided perception that my 2 edits were edit warring begs a response, so here it is:
  1. This edit simply added a few other highly notable equestrian sports. The original text and its meaning remained in tact with 2 very minor grammar changes. The Olympics, jumping and eventing do not represent the entire world of equestrian sports, and in fact, are a minuscule part of it.
  2. My edit was reverted, and the edit summary stated to first discuss on the TP. I did not revert that edit or edit war;
  3. I went directly to the TP to discuss.
  4. The editor who reverted my initial edit then made 2 completely separate bold edits here, and here without getting consensus first. This happened right after they criticized me and reverted my edits for not getting consensus first.
  5. I reverted those 2 bold edits stating The same applies to you.
  6. The editor then created this proposal, which I commented on here. How or why my initial edit and later revert of different material was subsequently misinterpreted, or conflated and/or blown out of proportion is beyond me.
  7. I even attempted to add more clarity, but to no avail.
The whole process and the results are a mess, and best explained in this article about the "downsides of volunteerism and how volunteers can contribute to stifling innovation", particularly the 32nd para which begins It's more serious when you realize this is the basic dynamic for Wikipedia decision making and control. No editor warrants the kind of treatment you demonstrated toward me in this discussion. You can rest assured that I will never seek your input again, so let's make it a voluntary two-way IBAN. I'm done here. Atsme 💬 📧 17:24, 27 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, when you're called out for your many editing problems, if course it has to be because of your gender. Pathetic. Everyone can see that in your revert, you reinstated your own additions, you didn't simply remove the two later edits by Joellejay. If you can't even recognise or admit such blatant facts, then why should I treat you differently than how I have done here? It has nothing to do with your gender, and hiding behind it is an insult to the many very good female editors we have. And no, I will not let you decide that I should have an interaction ban either: if I happen to come across problematic edits by you, I will deal with them just like I would do with other editors. Fram (talk) 17:51, 27 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, ok, noted - no voluntary 2-way IBAN. I didn't even notice my revert grabbed those prior edits - I didn't scroll far enough down the page to notice it until you just now mentioned it. Either way, it wasn't intentional, it wasn't edit warring, and it was reverted anyway. Adios! Atsme 💬 📧 21:48, 27 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Biography of living persons

I received a warning about living persons, controversial biography, in article "ringette" but there is no information where this occurred within the article. If I was the editor, I could remove it, but I don't know where to find it. CheckersBoard (talk) 13:58, 30 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have removed it before issuing the warning. It was in the controversy section, your claims about the transgeder player. Fram (talk) 14:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Jibolu-Taiwo family

Hello, Fram.

I just wanted to reach out and make a clarification about some editing that you did a few hours ago. You deleted references to Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti and Fela Kuti from the Wikipedia page I just made. Your rationale seems to be that there is no proof that they belong to the family in question. You will find, however, that the Johnson-Odim book that I cited referred to Chief Ransome-Kuti being Sarah Taiwo's great-granddaughter. Mr. Kuti, meanwhile, would therefore also be a descendant as the chief's son.

I will try to get some decent sources to shore up the page's notability, but if it's alright with you, I'll restore the references to the Kutis.

Here's hoping that you're well.

O.ominirabluejack (talk) 16:44, 30 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

So the great-great-grandmother of Fela Kuti was a Taiwo? Perhaps a bit of a stretch then to include him in the gallery, he is merely a distant relative woth a short mention but nothing more it seems. Fram (talk) 07:38, 31 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay... I'll do as you say regarding Fela, although I don't feel that you understand how families work here. Distant relatives are regarded as part of the family in a very real sense amongst the Yoruba... They even sometimes lead it, if you can believe it.
O.ominirabluejack (talk) 07:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But then what's the difference with the Ransome-Kuti family? I have no issue with the Jibolu one indicating that the Ransome-Kuti family is one offspring, one branch of it, but at some point the difference needs to be made clear. Fram (talk) 07:55, 31 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The Ransome-Kutis are the family that Chief Ransome-Kuti married into. Her family at birth were the Jibolu-Taiwos. They are two distinct yet related clans, much like how the House of Windsor and the Spencer family of Britain are distinct but related as well. We Yorubas are extensively ambilineal, so all of the chief's descendants are therefore members of both families simultaneously.
O.ominirabluejack (talk) 16:28, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A barnstar for you!

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
Hello Fram, I'm just dropping by to thank you, not only for your contributions, but also for moving an article to the draft, because you prevented it from being deleted, thanks for giving me a second chance to improve it. Greetings and good contributions! :) Ryenaldo Ziur (talk) 17:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

DYK issues

Sorry about my behavior before. I do know that there are issues with DYK, but I was having a terrible morning and I didn't use Google or that search term when I promoted the cavefish hook. Neither reason is a good excuse for the long argument though and I shouldn't have taken it personally. I admit that the long conversation to find a new hook at ERRORS and no one apparently checking for copyright violations at Frank H. Wadsworth is very grating and makes my head hurt. I recently filed a CCI report for a DYK contributor with years of copyright violations (still pending with no response since May 25) including in a few ITN promotions. Thankfully, it was that editor's first DYK nomination. I guess I'm saying that I thought editors would check for copyvios - it's pretty basic and there is even a useful tool for it. SL93 (talk) 13:30, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks, and no worries. I tend to overreacht sometimes as well, we are humans and real life issues can find a release valve in editing here (for better or sometimes for worse). I'm simply frustrated that DYK seems to still (or again) be the problem factory it was when I largely abandoned it in 2016 or so. I did error checking DYK queues for years: in those days, I was an admin and I usually either corrected the hook or pulled it, and then discussed this at WT:DYK: editors with too many DYK issues I brought to WP:ANI. All of this pissed off too many people, some with friends at the WMF, and eventually lead to my WMF ban and subsequent deadminning (coupled with my civility issues). So I mostly stayed away from DYK for the past few years, but the problems obviously didn't magically disappear once I stopped looking for them. Fram (talk) 13:37, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Merger discussion for Water (Water Saigon Kick album)

Merge-arrows.svg An article that you have been involved in editing—Water (Water Saigon Kick album)—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Paul McDonald (talk) 13:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

THANK YOU!!!

for this thread. I've been back and forth about doing it myself. PRAXIDICAE💕 14:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No sources

I have to admit I am really confused as to why there are so many keep votes on List of people on the postage stamps of Italy when the article still has no sources. It has existed for 17 years with no sources. Are sources no longer required in Wikipedia. Do we do original reseach now, and publish it without even allowing others to have a sense of how we did it?John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Talk Pages

I apologise and my mistake for reinstating all the information on his talk page, I always assumed its not allowed as your talk page is supposed to be permanent thanks for informing me. Also I was hoping you could tell me how to create talk page archives.N1TH Music (talk) 09:46, 8 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You can archive manually (that's how I do it, once my page gets too long I create a new archive and copy all older discussions there: others even move their talk page to an archive completely and start a new talk page every now and then), or you can install one of the archiving bots. Fram (talk) 10:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Saha86830

What do you want to say?Saha86830 (talk) 09:48, 8 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nothing. I just restored your edits to your talk page. Fram (talk) 10:11, 8 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank You for Filing with ArbCom

Thank you. Someone needed to do it. I was starting to write something up, and didn't really want to be the filer, because I tried that six months ago and was ignored. We shall see what happens. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:45, 8 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alabi Oyinkansola

Hi Fram,

I think I beat you to reviewing the article. I had moved it to draft but somehow seems you were in the process of nominating for AFD. What can we do? Jamiebuba (talk) 10:46, 10 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No problem, I have removed the AfD notice and asked for deletion of the AfD. Draftifying is just as acceptable as AfD'ing here, so no harm done. Thanks! Fram (talk) 10:50, 10 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Statement by Fram

"another error asked to change it, only to be met with "First, you didn't say please.""

I may start to think of some editors as errors now. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah, that's ... not really what I meant :-) I'll take a look! Fram (talk) 07:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

G-Aerosports Archon (articles for deletion)

Hello. I just wanted to mention that I created an alternative article for a particular plane type, rather than the company, following a relevant suggestion (it was argued that the references and other documentation did not provide in depth support for the company, as they made reference to the plane itself). Please see the arguments on the discussion page. Thanks! Skartsis (talk) 08:47, 16 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tagging of G-Aerosports Archon

Information.svg I recently removed a speedy delete tag that you had placed on G-Aerosports Archon. I do not think that G-Aerosports Archon fits any of the speedy deletion criteria  because although there is duplication, which is understandable, the contents are not similar. Although NCORP applies to the product as well, the AfD discussion steered clear of the product, and had focussed on the company only: There is possibly a case for an article about the Archon aircraft itself but the topic company fails NCORP criteria.. If you wish, you may try using the simple proposed deletion (PROD) process, or the full articles for deletion (AfD) process, instead, if this was an article, or another process such as MfD or XfD as appropriate. Jay (talk) 03:31, 17 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Arbitration case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 9, 2022, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, firefly ( t · c ) 11:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

About the article Dünya Aydoğdu

I have added sources. Would you check?

Thanks, but none of these are reliable, indepth sources. Wikipedia should never be used as a source, the two Disizi pages tell us nothing, and youtube isn't a reliable source to establish notability either. Fram (talk) 12:19, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The worst person you know

As a heads up I have reverted your post-prod redirect of [The worst person you know] and this article is now at AfD[2]. Artw (talk) 16:55, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Santa Margherita Ligure

Hello Fram, it's me N1TH Music again, I hope you are doing well, I just wanted to inform you that I plan to restart my editing of Santa Margherita Ligure but you know in a more encyclopaedic format and 100% paraphrased after translation. I'm telling you this because I need to clarify after I've written something that it's actually ok now so I would suggets ideally you check the article once in a while just to be safe. N1TH Music (talk) 12:58, 22 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please don't start readding the excessive detail, not every minor thing you can find somewhere needs to be repeated on enwiki, even when you do it in your own words. Looking at what you do at the Geography article, you seem to want to include every trivial bit, drowning out the essence by including way too much irrelevant information. Fram (talk) 13:02, 22 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I thought I'd take a tone more towards summary this time a you previously stated it was overdetailed. What's wrong with the geography article though? N1TH Music (talk) 08:05, 23 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The same that's wrong with most of your editing: poor sourcing, unverifiable claims, WP:OR, excessive detail (also in the Contern article), and so on. Fram (talk) 08:32, 23 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Fram I see you reverted my edits once again due to "sourcing wikipedia" what? I'm not sure what you are talking about. I just so happen to have been making a minor edit myself when I noticed an edit coflict so now I wish to fix the issue first before I make the other edit. So where was the supposed circular referencing? N1TH Music (talk) 10:36, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Really? Fram (talk) 10:44, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Fram I wrote that a long time ago in one of the now deleted revisions, it was initaially the entire geography section before I made the split. I figured then that since the article was about Geography that I could add more details but since that article was deemed unnotable and overdetailed I reverted back to the section in the original article. Nobody in the months that section had been at the top of the article had ever complained about it and while I agree, some better sources ought to be found I don't recall me doing any copying from Itwiki or doing any circular referencing so I really don't actually know what exactly you are refering to. If you tell me I can fix it. N1TH Music (talk) 10:49, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'ld much prefer if you didn't "fix" anything further and stopped editing completely, as I just again said at the ANI discussion. Fram (talk) 10:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can inform you I've learnt from my errors and I don't plan to edit much either but when my work gets removed I want to just re-add it in a way which is acceptable and be done with it. You can't possible say it's overdetailed so therefore the issue can be resolved if you cooperated. Most of your citations for my bad edits are of older work which nobody complained about until now so I had no reason to know there was anything wrong. On the other hand if you check the deletion nomination of Blackslough Wood somebody commented with evidence that there at least was a settlement there historically and I think one of my sources was an old map. So I don't think my claims were quite "hopeless" but that's besides the point. I saw on the ANI discussion that I made the wester pipe railway which was a decent article and I can do better still just so long as I focus on more notable topics with more sources available. I hope you can realise that what has happened the past months is that I tied a noose around my own neck in the form of what I was trying to create articles for and that I am at least somewhat capable on more notable topics. N1TH Music (talk) 10:57, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Words. Your edits from the last few days belie your claims. Fram (talk) 10:58, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Fram I haven't done any large edits recently and everything I did was avoiding original reasearch or most of the sources which I realised aren't actually sources. Like Openstreepmap or Google maps. Also I've realised that I shouldn't be making new articles for the time being so I've refrained. My editing has been limited. N1TH Music (talk) 11:05, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is limited, but as I have shown even then it hasn't improved. Fram (talk) 11:22, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Fram Fine I'll reduce my editing further and stop creating entirely for the time being until I can learn sources better, is that what you want to hear? Because I simply don't want to have to leave permanently. I have made some ok stuff. Also check the ANI thread some of the things you brought up I have reasoning for and one was actually an unnoticed typo I made. N1TH Music (talk) 11:26, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tintin and Palle Huld

The Palle Huld article has several sources for the claim that he was an inspiration for Tintin. I just grabbed one of them when I tweaked the addition. I don't know anything about the topic aside from that, but it may be more legitimate than the item put in Tintin made it seem. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:47, 23 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think that a short entry for Huld is indeed warranted, but the one that was put there had too many errors to just let it stand. A rewritten version is certainly welcome. Fram (talk) 13:58, 23 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are many potential influences, see Tintin_(character)#Influences. Not sure which influences belong to the series and which belong to the character, though... or whether these can even be reasonably split! —Kusma (talk) 14:31, 23 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Some are even only for the name (Tintin-Lutin by Rabier), other for the style and the text balloons (Alain Saint-Ogan), some for the character and the stories (Huld, ...), and some for the ego of the one making the claim (Degrelle). It's a complicated and at the same time natural thing, an artist mixing a whole load of influences from his youth and his time into one new creation. Fram (talk) 14:36, 23 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Page Patrol newsletter June 2022

Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg
New Page Review queue June 2022

Hello Fram,

Backlog status

At the time of the last newsletter (No.27, May 2022), the backlog was approaching 16,000, having shot up rapidly from 6,000 over the prior two months. The attention the newsletter brought to the backlog sparked a flurry of activity. There was new discussion on process improvements, efforts to invite new editors to participate in NPP increased and more editors requested the NPP user right so they could help, and most importantly, the number of reviews picked up and the backlog decreased, dipping below 14,000[a] at the end of May.

Since then, the news has not been so good. The backlog is basically flat, hovering around 14,200. I wish I could report the number of reviews done and the number of new articles added to the queue. But the available statistics we have are woefully inadequate. The only real number we have is the net queue size.[b]

In the last 30 days, the top 100 reviewers have all made more than 16 patrols (up from 8 last month), and about 70 have averaged one review a day (up from 50 last month).

While there are more people doing more reviews, many of the ~730 with the NPP right are doing little. Most of the reviews are being done by the top 50 or 100 reviewers. They need your help. We appreciate every review done, but please aim to do one a day (on average, or 30 a month).

Backlog drive

A backlog reduction drive, coordinated by buidhe and Zippybonzo, will be held from July 1 to July 31. Sign up here. WikiProject Barnstar Hires.png Barnstars will be awarded.

TIP – New school articles

Many new articles on schools are being created by new users in developing and/or non-English-speaking countries. The authors are probably not even aware of Wikipedia's projects and policy pages. WP:WPSCH/AG has some excellent advice and resources specifically written for these users. Reviewers could consider providing such first-time article creators with a link to it while also mentioning that not all schools pass the GNG and that elementary schools are almost certainly not notable.

Misc

There is a new template available, {{NPP backlog}}, to show the current backlog. You can place it on your user or talk page as a reminder:

High unreviewed pages backlog: 6847 pages according to DatBot as of 18:00, 25 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There has been significant discussion at WP:VPP recently on NPP-related matters (Draftification, Deletion, Notability, Verifiability, Burden). Proposals that would somewhat ease the burden on NPP aren't gaining much traction, although there are suggestions that the role of NPP be fundamentally changed to focus only on major CSD-type issues.

Reminders
  • Consider staying informed on project issues by putting the project discussion page on your watchlist.
  • If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, suggest they help the effort by placing {{subst:NPR invite}} on their talk page.
  • If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.
  • To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
Notes
  1. ^ not including another ~6,000 redirects
  2. ^ The number of weekly reviews reported in the NPP feed includes redirects, which are not included in the backlog we primarily track.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:02, 24 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

DYK

You mentioned that there were drag shows in Beirut way before 2015. Can you please provide your source? The article was pulled from DYK for no reason and I didn’t even get the change to challenge your claim. el.ziade (talkallam) 17:11, 24 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Dyk is back open, you can challenge my claim there. I poster my source at WP:ERRORS, I don't immediately have the link here (posting this from mobile). Fram (talk) 17:15, 24 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

X was the first Y in Z

This is so often verifiable but wrong that I think some education of people is needed. In my experience, half of articles about X usually copy such sensationalist claims from each other without checking, and to be sure, you'd need an article about "The history of Y in Z" that is written by an expert. Also, very often people turn "X was the first Y in Z" into "X was the first Y".

I don't know what is the best way to get more attention to this issue. Perhaps start an essay and collect examples and link to that essay every time it comes up? A collection of times this has gone wrong might also help to convince people that this kind of statement needs more rigorous fact checking at DYK than "it is in the source". —Kusma (talk) 10:31, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The least that is needed is that DYK regulars are made aware of this and start checking this. The amount of errors at DYK is quite staggering, and this is one of the main reasons for it (thorough carelessness by some reviewers and promotors is another one). I see that @Theleekycauldron: started a section at WT:DYK, thank you for that. Fram (talk) 10:36, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think it is a wider issue than just DYK, but that is where it is most visible. Nevertheless, in all articles, such statements can cause long-term damage through citogenesis. —Kusma (talk) 11:03, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Church of Singapore

Hi, Why did you nominate for deletion? Please retract the deletion notice, that includes Church of Singapore (Bukit Timah) and Impact Life Church pages as well and there are morte to do and therefo It wouldn't be nice of you to keep of removing and scheduling for deletion when I did contest the deletion when you said your search results returns as Catholic Church of Singapore when the English version of the result does returns the protestant church. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josephsolomon92 (talkcontribs) 09:35, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You need to demonstrate notability by finding independent sources about the churches, not just the website of the church itself. The only thing that seems to have attracted attention is that a pastor got a two-week sentence for road rage, and some people got Covid while at the church. Neither of these makes any of the three churches notable. If people agree that these have no place on Wikipedia, you should be glad that I saved you the pointless work of creating even more such articles if they would get deleted anyway. Fram (talk) 09:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am not glad but furious by your actions. you could have discuss before flagging for deletion asd your statement "you should be glad that I saved you the pointless work of creating even more such articles if they would get deleted anyway." is just pure sarcasm. Josephsolomon92 (talk) 09:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(talk page stalker) Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information - it is an encyclopaedia. If we wrote articles simply on the basis that they existed and had verifiable information, we would end up with a directory instead. Furthermore, an article whose only prominent sourcing contains minor criminal charges and issues with Covid might be considered potentially libellous, so deleting these articles not only keeps the encyclopaedia on-track, but prevents harm to living people. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Retrive deleted page

Hi @Fram can I ask you to send me the page you deleted so I can edit it? Thank you Jdtw2022 (talk) 08:06, 29 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I can't access deleted pages, you can go to WP:REFUND to ask for it (I don't know if it is eligible, much of it were copyright violations which often aren'r refunded, but it wasn't tagged as such so you may be in luck). Fram (talk) 08:08, 29 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Notability of Father Léo

Father Léo was a major preacher on TV (Canção Nova) and is now a Servant of God. He is known by everyone in Brazil. Gondolabúrguer (talk) 08:44, 29 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Then you shouldn't have any problem writing an article based on independent sources, like major newspapers or books, instead of just using sources from organisations he was heavily involved with. Fram (talk) 08:48, 29 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Deprodding of List of discontinued x86 instructions

I have removed the {{proposed deletion/dated}} tag from List of discontinued x86 instructions, which you proposed for deletion. Hey @Fram I just wanted to let you know I objected to the deletion of List of discontinued x86 instructions because it looks like it's going to get spun off to wikibooks Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_undocumented_x86_instructions. If you still think this article should be deleted, please do not add {{proposed deletion}} back to the page. Instead, feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks! Dr vulpes (💬📝) 07:46, 30 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

NPP July 2022 backlog drive is on!

New Page Patrol | July 2022 Backlog Drive
NPP Barnstar.png
  • On 1 July, a one-month backlog drive for New Page Patrol will begin.
  • Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles patrolled.
  • Barnstars will also be granted for re-reviewing articles previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive.
  • Redirect patrolling is not part of the drive.
  • Interested in taking part? Sign up here.
You're receiving this message because you are a new page patroller. To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

(t · c) buidhe 20:25, 1 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

good luck

Hope you have better luck dealing with this than I did...it was deeply unpleasant. PRAXIDICAE🌈 15:28, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Previous encounters with that editor were often "deeply unpleasant" indeed. I just removed copyvio (plus troubling referral to Youtube) from SLC6A1 epileptic encephalopathy as well, the issues seem to happen on multiple pages and are unbecoming of an admin. Fram (talk) 15:34, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well the fact that they're an admin doing this is deeply disturbing, take a look at the discussion on I think Irid's talk page and their own. MEDRS took a back seat for their "editathon" too. PRAXIDICAE🌈 15:38, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Um, what? They were heavily involved with an editathon, and they restored articles from that editathon which were deleted for copyvio? How is this not a serious breach of WP:INVOLVED? Has this been raised before? Fram (talk) 15:51, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes. To all of this. Yes. I gave up dealing with it when they told me that the copyvio didn't exist (because not only did they not revdel it, they restored it without proper attribution to the previous authors so the history in which the cv existed was gone, aka the old dumb way of getting rid of copyvios.) PRAXIDICAE🌈 16:13, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is deleted, we'll see if he restores it once again. Fram (talk) 08:05, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Spelling - Thanks

Thanks for the fixes/moves associated with my spelling error! CT55555 (talk) 12:11, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No problem! Fram (talk) 12:12, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy at Armorial of the governors general of Canada

Hello Fram. Good to see you here.

I removed your speedy tag from the subject article because I don't believe that the case for the article being a copyvio is clear-cut. I am not an expert on heraldry but it is my understanding that the textual descriptions of coats of arms are mechanical in nature and may not qualify for copyright. I believe that, at a minimum, a broader discussion may be warranted at WP:CP or some other suitable forum. Best wishes, UninvitedCompany 16:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Football

I most certainly was not trolling. But, I'm not going to get into a dispute over it. Too tired of editors assuming bad intentions, from me. GoodDay (talk) 16:46, 19 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Then you should perhaps try to explain why your unlinked experience with season articles for other sports has anything, at all, to do with that discussion about Afds for bio articles about European style soccer. Neither your first post nor your followup did anything whatsoever to make this clear, and your first post had already been removed by another editor for that very reason. Fram (talk) 16:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks!

Hi! Thanks for the talk page messege. I won't be doing Plot or Gameplay sections anymore and I wanted to say keep up the good work. I assume you are an administrator? Timur9008 (talk) 10:12, 20 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, former admin and long-term contributor. But any editor can leave warnings (if they are justified!), no need to be an admin to do this. Fram (talk) 10:32, 20 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I went ahead and removed the copyrighted stuff from my articles. Timur9008 (talk) 12:58, 15 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Verifiability

Can I ask the reason for reverting talk page edits? Selfstudier (talk) 09:26, 23 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My apologies, I thought I had reverted something completely different, but on mobile I sometimes seem to have such hiccups. I didn´t have the intention or any reason to revert you. Fram (talk) 11:15, 23 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Np :) Selfstudier (talk) 11:25, 23 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion declined on Trip (Band UK)

Hi there, I've just declined your speedy delete on Trip (Band UK). There's not much here, but that they had a song in a film by a notable director is probably enough for CSD. Needs to go to AfD if required. Thanks. GedUK  10:11, 25 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good call, I have added as much extra detail as I can find and shall add more when I find it. NedRifle (talk) 15:00, 25 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Moved St. John Florentine page to Draft

Hello! Good afternoon, I was wondering if you could state the reasons for the drafting of this page? I would like to know so that I can change it, Asap. Thank you.

Ploreky (talk) 06:25, 26 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The article has no independent sources, only sources from organisations he belonged to. Furthermore, the article has claims not supported by even these sources and otherwise unverifiable, like him having been a Roman Catholic bishop. Apart from that, the article needs general cleanup (capitalization), checks for neutrality, checks for copy right violations (if the source e.g. says that he was "an Achiever in the field of Public Service", then we shouldn't simply copy that because articles need to be written in your own words, and because that is not a neutral assessment but promotional language from his own church). Other sources like this don't seem to have any relation with the article. Fram (talk) 07:31, 26 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion declined: Sonia Mukato

Hello Fram. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Sonia Mukato, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: the copyvio is the reference text title. Not a vio. Thank you. GedUK  11:34, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ged UK:
Article:
"Sonia Mutako known in the movie 'Indoto Series', is one of the most popular in Rwanda cinema due to her acting style and real life behavior."
Source via Google Translate:
"Sonia Mutako, known in the movie 'Indoto Series' as Betty, is one of the most popular actresses in Rwandan cinema due to her acting and behavior in real life."
"The copyvio is the reference text title", please... Translations will not be detected by the tools, but humans can find this. Please reconsider your decision. Fram (talk) 12:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks!

You're good people. Hope you have a peaceful day! Littlebitof (talk) 14:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sample games

Dear Fram, is Hostage_chess#Example_game something that should be allowed as part of an article? Oeoi (talk) 15:38, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Assuming it is not a copyright violation from the source (which I can't access), yes; at least it is sourced to a published book, a WP:RS, not some random website where unknown people promote a new variant without any attention from reliable sources so far. Fram (talk) 15:41, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, regrettably, David Pritchard passed away in 2005, so it is unlikely there will be any annotated variant games in his books anytime soon... Do you have any specific reason to believe that the game, as published, is incorrect? If not, would it not be a clear contribution to the content of the article? Oeoi (talk) 15:47, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Considering that the sample game is based on the rules of the non notable variation which was removed as well, and thus doesn't even show the rules as described in the article: no it has no place there at all. By the way, per WP:COI, what is your connection, if any, to the people involved with that new variation? Fram (talk) 15:49, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, "was removed" is a weird way of putting it, since all of the removals were done by one person--you:) I have a pretty strong connection to gravity chess--I've played it maybe a hundred times at the local chess club, but this means I can attest to the accuracy of the sample game (doesn't break any rules, etc). Oeoi (talk) 15:57, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It makes no sense to discuss the inclusion or not of some sample game when the game it samples isn't included. Fram (talk) 16:01, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry, I'm a bit confused by what you're trying to say. Regardless, I have no burning desire to have this included--it just feels like if an encyclopedia has a variant, then a sample game is by definition relevant. But anyways, I don't mind waiting until some secondary sources roll in--the finals match of the tournament should be aptly covered. Oeoi (talk) 16:05, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The "tournament" which has so far received zero attention, for a game (variant) no one has ever talked about, played between people no one ever heard of? That tournament will suddenly see the secondary sources roll in for the final? Right... Fram (talk) 16:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I admit I am not entirely sure as to your motivation in keeping a sample game of gravity chess off of Wikipedia...it seems like useful, carefully annotated content, and--please correct me if I'm wrong, and I mean this with respect--your edit history doesn't necessarily make it seem like you are especially well-informed in chess variants. If you have a vendetta against chess variants in particular, then I have some good news for you--there's easily dozens of articles on variants that would hardly meet your "requirement" of being played by famous people. You can go wild with your removals:)
However, my personal belief is that if information is 1. factual, 2. useful to hundreds of people, and 3. encyclopedic, it is a net loss to the mission of Wikipedia to keep it off an article. I realize that we likely disagree in this regard, but I would strongly urge you to reconsider this view; Wikipedia is a collaborative project, and gatekeeping a carefully annotated chess game off of an article about the variant feels like you're putting yourself in a position of power that, as a member of a community project, you do not necessarily have. Oeoi (talk) 20:57, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A vendetta against chess variants? Oh, how mistaken you are. No, I have a vendetta against gravity, a vast conspiracy of the UN and Big Tech to keep us down. Fram (talk) 07:33, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1860s comics images

A tag has been placed on Category:1860s comics images indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 17:28, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Redirect of r/fuckcars article

Hi! Thanks for your attention to the r/fuckcars article. The community is not directly related to r/place and would not really work as a subsection in that article – it may have increased in popularity due to the visibility gained in 2022 through that event, but that wouldn't be the reason it's notable or frequented by most of its users. I changed the redirect to go to Car-free movement instead, which is a lot more fitting; I still believe, however, that the article has potential to stand on its own. Will look forward to discussing further when you have a chance. Thank you! –Fpmfpm (talk) 07:46, 2 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've restored the article. It is best if the redirect is mentioned in the article it targets. Redirect is not a good solution here. We either need to do a merge to make this so or take it to AfD or leave it as a stand-alone article. ~Kvng (talk) 13:47, 2 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Country at the X championships

Hi! Yes, I am creating the articles of the countries in the World Championships in Athletics. And I am adding the athletes as I am correcting the articles of each athletic event. For example, now I'm with the men's 1500 meters, and I am adding the athletes from each country. When I have gone through all the events in the World Championships, the X Country in the 1983 WCA articles will be finished with the correct number of athletes. Since they were articles that didn't exist, I didn't think they'd get many views before I was done. As for the source, no problem. I'm looking at the statistics handbook of the World Athletics, so there is nothing more official. It was my fault for not putting it in the references. Itxia (talk) 15:52, 4 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, France at the 1973 World Aquatics Championships gives 2 competitors for France in diving because, well, France had two competitors in diving. And the same goes for Great Britain at the 1973 World Aquatics Championships. They had 7 competitors in diving. I didn't put the number of total competitors in the main box. Itxia (talk) 16:23, 4 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, but you created an awfully incomplete article on a similar subject as the ones we have here, and then abandoned it. And you included their one medal in the infobox, but not in the article, making it awfully confusing. It's just not the kind of article we should have for a while, and certainly not for 3 years. Fram (talk) 16:31, 4 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But don't worry, I will do all the articles in Draft and, when complete, will move them. Actually, better for me. This way there's no pressure for me and I can do the articles little by little. Itxia (talk) 16:27, 4 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Re: Football in Saba

Generally agree with the warnings you've added, how could I not? What I'd note though on notability - St Eustatius already had its own article (a sentence at the time) so I created it for equality purposes. Could argue that the two could be merged as they're very similar places? Also, I did try and find as many sources outside of their FB page as possible, but the island is a bit of a black hole for news...sorry! Ratkiller75 (talk) 20:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Madonna of Constantinopli

The article is about naming items Madonna of Constantinople, pages already exist in 5 different languages. It is not the same as Hodegetria because the specific name is used to name multiple objects such as statues, paintings, and buildings as described. It also discusses a specific ritual.Tzim78 (talk) 15:50, 5 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Page Patrol newsletter August 2022

New Page Review queue August 2022

Hello Fram,

Backlog status

After the last newsletter (No.28, June 2022), the backlog declined another 1,000 to 13,000 in the last week of June. Then the July backlog drive began, during which 9,900 articles were reviewed and the backlog fell by 4,500 to just under 8,500 (these numbers illustrate how many new articles regularly flow into the queue). Thanks go to the coordinators Buidhe and Zippybonzo, as well as all the nearly 100 participants. Congratulations to Dr vulpes who led with 880 points. See this page for further details.

Unfortunately, most of the decline happened in the first half of the month, and the backlog has already risen to 9,600. Understandably, it seems many backlog drive participants are taking a break from reviewing and unfortunately, we are not even keeping up with the inflow let alone driving it lower. We need the other 600 reviewers to do more! Please try to do at least one a day.

Coordination
MB and Novem Linguae have taken on some of the coordination tasks. Please let them know if you are interested in helping out. MPGuy2824 will be handling recognition, and will be retroactively awarding the annual barnstars that have not been issued for a few years.
Open letter to the WMF
The Page Curation software needs urgent attention. There are dozens of bug fixes and enhancements that are stalled (listed at Suggested improvements). We have written a letter to be sent to the WMF and we encourage as many patrollers as possible to sign it here. We are also in negotiation with the Board of Trustees to press for assistance. Better software will make the active reviewers we have more productive.
TIP - Reviewing by subject
Reviewers who prefer to patrol new pages by their most familiar subjects can do so from the regularly updated sorted topic list.
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New reviewers
The NPP School is being underused. The learning curve for NPP is quite steep, but a detailed and easy-to-read tutorial exists, and the Curation Tool's many features are fully described and illustrated on the updated page here.
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Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:24, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. The thread is not about you, but you were mentioned by name. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:40, 8 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Information icon Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Fram reported by User:Tzim78. Thank you. —Tzim78 (talk) 20:11, 8 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I removed the report.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:24, 8 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

I added our article to a discussion board for dispute resolution Draft:Madonna of Constantinople. Thank you for all your hard work.Tzim78 (talk) 21:02, 8 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comment

I think that the discussion at the draft talk page is the first time that I have found the writings of a native Anglograph/Anglophone to be so confusing and imprecise that I actually thought that they were having difficulty with English as a foreign language. As you have probably read by now, I think that you were right to draftify the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:36, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Indeed. I have tried to explain the basic issue with having two articles again, ignoring for the moment the problems with their writings. I don't get why they claim to have adressed the things I raised when they haven't even bothered correcting the many misspellings of Constantinople yet... Fram (talk) 07:44, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think that this is partly a case of someone who has become overly satisfied or overly impressed with their own status (or self-designated status) as an expert. They certainly are not an expert on Wikipedia policies, guidelines, and procedures. They seriously misread the history of their article/draft. Their claim to have addressed your issues, when they hadn't, is a reason why I thought that they didn't understand the English. We shall see what happens next. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:20, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion declined: Weesperstraat 113–117

Hello Fram. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Weesperstraat 113–117, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: A7 doesn't apply to buildings. . Thank you. GedUK  13:45, 11 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"2022 Hoover Dam explosion" listed at Redirects for discussion

Information.svg An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect 2022 Hoover Dam explosion and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 14#2022 Hoover Dam explosion until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 07:59, 14 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Camp Mather

Can you take a look at the Draft: Camp Mather.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Camp_Mather_(San_Francisco_Recreation_and_Parks)

Is it ready for mainspace? Suggestions?

Thanks! MikeVdP (talk) 23:50, 16 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy First Edit Day!

Discussion

Hello Fram, I have started a discussion on the AfD for Cones Lake because I think sources brought to AfD have been conflated. Lightburst (talk) 14:00, 19 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

NPP message

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Hi Fram,

Invitation

For those who may have missed it in our last newsletter, here's a quick reminder to see the letter we have drafted, and if you support it, do please go ahead and sign it. If you already signed, thanks. Also, if you haven't noticed, the backlog has been trending up lately; all reviews are greatly appreciated.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:10, 20 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Painters from Strasbourg

A tag has been placed on Category:Painters from Strasbourg indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:10, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Karlštejn (opera)

I need the explanation on the reverting my edit on Karlštejn (opera). Best TTP1233 (talk) 16:01, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The explanation is that you aren´t competent enough to edit the English Wikipedia, and should never have been unblocked. You make one poor edit after another, which I have raised in your latest section at WP:AN. Perhaps try to find out for yourself why I would revert your edit. It isn´t very hard... Fram (talk) 16:05, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hmm sound more odd to me, but I understand your thought. Well this is the beginning of when I rejoin in this Wiki. But soon I will take a wikibreak for one month for some emergency work. Till then I will learn more about here.
And you could have explain me in gentle manner rather in harsh manner as I see above. People like you (which are quite not convinced) could also have oppose me in my unblock request at AN. But I waited for my good faiths which brought me here to speak.
Still! Never mind. I don't want to create an edit warring or else I will be reblocked. I'm happy to still work with you people. Once I get stable in this wiki after quite some time, then I will get satisfied I did become a productive editor irrespective of getting any rights and privileges. Because I'm a learner. TTP1233 (talk) 17:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
TTP1233, you added a reference to a source about a 2022 beer festival at a castle to an article about an opera written in 1916. Karlštejn is the article about the castle. The opera and the castle are different topics and your edit was bad. Cullen328 (talk) 17:13, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Deletaion of Burlaki and Nemule

Plz Don't target this as vandalised i am quickly link with accurate wiki pages to this pages give me just one day times to complete full wiki articles this is just i begain to completed whole bio-datas i know i know break wikipedia policies but plz give just a few times to complete the line chronology i have already all documents of this but just only it’s possible if you help to give me times. Ajrun Amir'za-da (talk) 12:58, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I never do this again Promise — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajrun Amir'za-da (talkcontribs) 12:59, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion declined: Burlaki Barlas

Hello Fram. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Burlaki Barlas, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: I can't see why this is an obvious hoax. Can you list rationale on the talkpage, or take to AfD. Thank you. GedUK  15:55, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Could you find anything at all that indicated that it wasn't a hoax? Nothing in the sources provided, and nothing when looking outside these sources, should perhaps have been an indication? Anyway, it's at AfD now. Fram (talk) 07:23, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion declined: Nemule Barlas

Hello Fram. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Nemule Barlas, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: I can't see why this is an obvious hoax. Can you list rationale on the talkpage, or take to AfD. . Thank you. GedUK  16:04, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ged UK Did you see the discussion on the creators talk page about these articles? Also note the lack of results when you look the names up... Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 16:09, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not sure GedUK looks for context anywhere, ever @Moneytrees. PICKLEDICAE🥒 16:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That seems a bit harsh. I too had trouble deleting these articles as blatant hoaxes, but, unlike Ged UK, I wimped out and did nothing.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:14, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's more a commentary on their general declines, not just this one. PICKLEDICAE🥒 16:16, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I did, but that's not conclusive either way for me. It's not blatant. It may well be fake, but it's just not blatantly obvious sufficient for a speedy. GedUK  08:24, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
After thinking about deleting them for a long time, I have nominated both pages at AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nemule Barlas. —Kusma (talk) 16:26, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Existence person shouldn’t be deleted Ajrun Amir'za-da (talk) 18:46, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Draft:ABS-CBN Broadcasting Center fire

You moved this subject to draft last September 6, 2022, can you check the updated references of the subject if it can publish it back to main space? SeanJ 2007 (talk) 02:18, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I see no fundamental difference, this was a very minor incident which gets the usual WP:NOTNEWS treatment. Fram (talk) 07:21, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What about the 7:20 (UTC) latest edit of the draft? Does it sill connected the WP:NOTNEWS? SeanJ 2007 (talk) 08:08, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, no idea what difference this would make. It was a very, very minor incident, which got some attention the day it happened. That's it. It has no lasting impact, nothing which would move it beyond news and into encyclopedia material. Fram (talk) 08:43, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So since its a minor incident, it does not need an encyclopedia article? SeanJ 2007 (talk) 09:48, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A minor incident with no lasting impact, yes, those don't need and shouldn't have a Wikipedia article. I'm sure you can find examples where such events have an article anyway, but these either have more to them or should have been deleted and were not spotted. Fram (talk) 09:51, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Draftifying articles

Hello, Fram,

I know you mean well but please do not move-war with editors about moving articles into Draft space. According to WP:DRAFTOBJECT, editors can revert a page move from main space to Draft space if they object to it and you should only do this move with an article once, not several times. If the article is not in good shape, please tag it, noting its problems or otherwise, tag it for deletion. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 22:44, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I know, but that´s probably the most stupid rule we have. We leave terrible articles in mainspace because we may only draftify once, and "Afd is not cleanup". Tagging them leaves the very poor, incorrect articles readable, and even eedirecting leaves the history in the mainspace. Basically, redraftifying is what IAR is for: the rule you state clearly prevents people from improving Wikipedia in these cases. Fram (talk) 07:28, 10 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1983 establishments in Botswana

A tag has been placed on Category:1983 establishments in Botswana indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:08, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oversightable material

I have emailed the list suggesting that the information OS'ed at ANI should not have been and should be reversed. But your choice to repost that information, rather than use a real channel to appeal which you obviously know how to do, would make you eligible for a block. I'm not going to block you for information that I think should be unredacted but if a different oversighter, who perhaps had thought it an appropriate OS, had found the information it certainly could be used to justify an OS block. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:32, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And then a de- oversightship and perhaps a good look at whoever asked for oversight in the first place? If it was Gamaliel, then he misused oversight to get me in trouble for information they had made publuc in the first place... I´ld rather be blocked as the result of such backchannel abuse, than hide the abuse by using the backchannels as well. WMF and WMDC have enough of a bad record, asding to it would not really help them. Fram (talk) 18:41, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Gamaliel does not have OS anymore so no it was not him and to my knowledge the person who OS'ed it has no connection to WMDC (nor do I). Barkeep49 (talk) 18:46, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I said who asked for Oversight, not who performed it. Although the second set of oversight, which I wasn´t aware of at my previous post, comes very close to Oversight abuse anyway. Fram (talk) 18:49, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Fram, this is being discussed on the mailing list. If we conclude that the edits should not have been oversighted, the action will be undone. If you think that the oversighter who suppressed your edits committed an abuse, you can report them to ArbCom... Please, let us discuss the issue and come to a consensus. Salvio 19:05, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Then please let me know who asked for the oversight, and who performed it. Fram (talk) 19:08, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The way I interpret the privacy policy, I am fairly certain I cannot disclose who asked for your edits to be suppressed. I can reassure you there was no inappropriate use of back channels, because the request was made through the proper channels. I am not going to disclose the identity of the oversighter who performed the suppression either, but that does not prevent you from reporting them to ArbCom and if they find that this suppression constituted tool abuse, I'm confident they will take appropriate action. Salvio 19:15, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There was fairly extensive discussion last year around whether someone could reveal something in a log that they can only see because they are a CU/OS. The guidance from legal and the ombuds was a firm "no". As Salvio says if you are concerned about abuse you can certainly request ArbCom examine the situation. Barkeep49 (talk) 19:24, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, but I´ll probably not bother posting to Arbcom without any way of knowing who did what here. I hope OS and Arbcom check if they haven´t been fooled by an Os request by someone who knew full well that the information was out in the open and posted by themselves, but tried to get someone else into trouble. That they used the "proper channels" for their hypothetical shenanigans is not really an excuse... Fram (talk) 19:31, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The material has been unsuppressed. Barkeep49 (talk) 20:10, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. Can the (redacted) bits also be unredacted? Fram (talk) 20:14, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You already did, thanks! Fram (talk) 20:15, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

List of prime ministers of India

I don't understand your speedy on this page. It appears that Setswana did a c&P move from List of heads of government of India to List of prime ministers of India. Setswana now wants List of prime ministers of India moved to List of prime ministers of India. Is this non-controversial? Thanks- Cheers Adakiko (talk) 09:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The article List of heads of government of India was originally at List of prime ministers of India, and was a featured list. Setswana moved it to the new title[3], added their completely incorrect content to it, and then recreated their incorrect content at List of prime ministers of India. I have reverted the original article to its original content, but it also needs to be moved to its original title again. Fram (talk) 09:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Due to further moves by the same editor, I was now able to move the page back myself, so no need for a G6 any longer. Fram (talk) 09:27, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Got it! My head was spinning there. Thanks for the reply. Cheers Adakiko (talk) 09:36, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Notability alpine skiers

All in all I quite agree that Wolfgang Hell is not all that notable. The trouble is that on the German and Italian Wikipedia (you can understand that alpine skiing is certainly more popular in Austria, where it is even a national sport and in Italy than in America for example), a victory in the Europa Cup is enough (and he has just one) or a national title to be encyclopedic. Rules should be established by us too. --Kasper2006 (talk) 16:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Every language version has their own rules, and the existence or absence of an article on other wikipedias has no bearing on what we should or shouldn't have though. The rule for enwiki is WP:GNG / WP:BIO: we tried sport-specific rules in the past, and most of them lead to serious issues. Fram (talk) 07:28, 23 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October 2022 New Pages Patrol backlog drive

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(t · c) buidhe 21:16, 23 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

First football match in Spain

Hello. I have corrected another copyright infringement. Are you still detecting more? If so, I wouldn't mind your help to correct them, so we can put this page back online.

Regarding the "previous copyvios need to be history removed", well... it seems we gotta find someone who can do this kind of mission.Barr Theo (talk) 00:41, 24 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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