User talk:North8000

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Please comment on Talk:Aphex Twin

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Aphex Twin. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Done North8000 (talk) 12:14, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Be well at Christmas

SilkTork Christmas.jpg Have a WikiChristmas and a PediaNewYear

Be well. Keep well. Have a lovely Christmas. SilkTork (talk) 17:23, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

@SilkTork: Thanks! And I wish you the same. North8000 (talk) 20:51, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Arbitration case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/RHaworth. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/RHaworth/Evidence. Please add your evidence by January 14, 2020, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/RHaworth/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, CodeLyokotalk 03:25, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

ANI

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. This relates to the degradation of discussions at Talk:Libertarianism. Not certain that it directly involves you as none of your comments were in the section that I hatted. --Ryk72 talk 04:35, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm going to stay out of the drama side. North8000 (talk) 18:01, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
No worries. I've just asked for an uninvolved admin to have a look over the discussion; hoping that it will be steered back onto discussing content, not contributors. - Ryk72 talk 18:11, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Concerning an informal study

Hi there. I was conducting an "informal" study on the usage of Portals on Wikipedia, and for that reason, I've come to ask you a few question:

  • How often do you use Portals?
  • Which Portals do you visit (if any)?
  • How useful do you find them?

Apologies for wasting your precious time on Wikipedia. P.S. It's all fine with me if you don't want to answer these questions. Ambuj Shukla (talk) 18:12, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

@Ambujshukla2004:Thanks for the inquiry. I'd be happy to answer:

  • How often do you use Portals? Never
  • Which Portals do you visit (if any)? None
  • How useful do you find them? Never of use to me.

The modern search engine era has pretty well replaced such methods of finding information.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:35, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg
Seven years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:33, 18 January 2020 (UTC) @Gerda Arendt: A belated thank you! North8000 (talk) 11:03, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorry for bothering you, but...

Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg
New Page Patrol needs experienced volunteers
  • New Page Patrol is currently struggling to keep up with the influx of new articles. We could use a few extra hands on deck if you think you can help.
  • Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines; Wikipedia needs experienced users to perform this task and there are precious few with the appropriate skills. Even a couple reviews a day can make a huge difference.
  • If you would like to join the project and help out, please see the granting conditions and review our instructions page. You can apply for the user-right HERE. — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here)(click me!) 20:32, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

New page reviewer granted

Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg

Hi North8000. Your account has been added to the "New page reviewers" user group. Please check back at WP:PERM in case your user right is time limited or probationary. This user group allows you to review new pages through the Curation system and mark them as patrolled, tag them for maintenance issues, or nominate them for deletion. The list of articles awaiting review is located at the New Pages Feed. New page reviewing is vital to maintaining the integrity of the encyclopedia. If you have not already done so, you must read the tutorial at New Pages Review, the linked guides and essays, and fully understand the deletion policy. If you need any help or want to discuss the process, you are welcome to use the new page reviewer talk page. In addition, please remember:

  • Be nice to new editors. They are usually not aware that they are doing anything wrong. Do make use of the message feature when tagging pages for maintenance so that they are aware.
  • You will frequently be asked by users to explain why their page is being deleted. Please be formal and polite in your approach to them – even if they are not.
  • If you are not sure what to do with a page, don't review it – just leave it for another reviewer.
  • Accuracy is more important than speed. Take your time to patrol each page. Use the message feature to communicate with article creators and offer advice as much as possible.

The reviewer right does not change your status or how you can edit articles. If you no longer want this user right, you also may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. In cases of abuse or persistent inaccuracy of reviewing, or long-term inactivity, the right may be withdrawn at administrator discretion. Barkeep49 (talk) 19:02, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Your Boy Scouts revert

Since the Scouts have changed their policies over time, I found the headings "Support" and "Opposition" confusing. In the article as I found it, and as you reverted it, the "Support" section describes support for the old, original policies, not support for the current policies that have been in place for multiple years now. I found that confusing. Also, i think articles are supposed to reflect current reality.

I'm ok with being reverted. What I want is to find consensus with you about what a non-confusing heading should say. It would be simpler if there was just one issue (eg homosexuality), then we could say "Support for excluding homosexuals" on one section, and "Support for including homosexuals" in the other. But we also have issues about in/excluding girls, and atheists and non-deistic religions.

How would you briefly and neutrally caption these? Perhaps just "Support for excluding people"? Or is that not neutral enough for you? What distinguishes the factions in your mind? Gnuish (talk) 18:25, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

@Gnuish:Well trying to get more specific, besides a challenge of wading into NPOV challenges is also going to wade into a lot more complexities. Regarding the policies themselves, I think that "homosexuality related policies" would be NPOV and then let the wording establish the era that is being covered. Thus avoiding trying to characterize or paraphrase the policies which is a whole 'nother minefield regarding exactly what they were and weren't. But the added complexity is that a substantial portion of the the support described in the paragraph is generally of the BSA itself or of the BSA's right to set policies in that area rather than of the policies, . The current concept of just having a top level "reaction" section and simply splitting in by "support" and "opposition" is sort of a cop out but does get it done. I'm going to try to put in an intro section under the top level section that might help / provide context for the subsections. ....see what you think. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:57, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm watching this group of articles

A group of articles targeted by an aggressive promotional campaign. They were partially protected and then the protection expired. Now it appears that the campaign has expanded to additional articles. I'm trying to build a list and watch to see if it warrants further action.

North8000 (talk) 13:05, 4 December 2018 (UTC) North8000 (talk) 13:31, 14 December 2018 (UTC) North8000 (talk) 11:04, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Edith A. Moravcsik

Hallo North8000! Please be specific about why you want to delete this article. I note that this article is about a living human being and many things will come to light after his death. Then you can expand it better. In the meantime, it's worth the wait. currently:

  • There are articles in 2 other languages
  • there are resources.

What's wrong? --Crosstor (talk) 05:22, 26 March 2020 (UTC) Dates = of 99% sure linkspamming or advertising. I started this 12/3/18but looked back for a few

Hello @Crosstor: Thanks for the post. First what I "want" to do is simply to do my new article curation / review job properly. I don't "want" to delete the article, I just feel that the correct thing to do was to submit it for review by the community under the AFD process. I did provide the following explanation at the article talk page:
Reviewed under Wikipedia's new article curation / review process. Thanks for your work on this article. As a part of Wikipedia's new article review / curation process I just reviewed this article. In my opinion, this topic, to the extent visible in the article does not meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines which is a requirement for existence of a separate article on a topic. This guideline is described at WP:Notability and in the specialized guidelines linked at the beginning of that page which provide somewhat of an alternate. The core element of wp:notability is that there are some independent published sources which covered the topic of the article in depth. The article has only one source, and it is a directory type listing of her. Also, without such coverage to draw from, the article is just resume type material. I have nominated the article for review under Wikipedia's "Article for Deletion" process so that the community may decide.
The above makes the specifics pretty obvious for someone who has read wp:notability. Possibly you haven't read it yet? I'm not sure what is missing. If sources exist of the type required (independent published secondary sources which covered the topic of the article in depth.), you should put them into the article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:22, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Concerns after reviewing Raihan Merchant under Wikipedia's new article curation / review process

Hello North8000! The article fulfill all Wiki policies, and that's why you have passed the notability requirement. Wikipedia is a source of unbiased information about a diverse body of knowledge. This article presents a new subject that people are interested about. In the true spirit of this platform, there must be no other consideration as long as the article meets the requirements of notability and presents sufficient sources. My status as an independent individual contributor need not be questioned based on any 'circumstantial evidence'. I have the utmost respect for Wikipedia and its editors, and wish to be counted as one, albeit a very inactive one. Sharan Shias (talk) 07:29, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Sharan Shias: Thanks for the post. My only goal is to do my job properly. I will have to disagree with your statement structurally. First, regarding existence as a separate article, compliance with both wp:not and wp:notability is required; I felt that the topic passed both of those and passed it, even though it (and the subject's company) had been rejected by others before. My potential undisclosed COI editing concern arose from on third edit under your user name you created the entire article with references, with you obviously having had more Wikipedia experience than those two very tiny edits before that. Also the situation is such that him having an article plus your attempted creation of an article on his company (which the community decided to delete) provides commercial benefit to them which. combined with other aspects, raised concerns about undisclosed paid editing which Wikipedia is trying to deal with generally, beyond the existence/non-existence of any particular article. I noted that several had previously raised concerns about this and editing under multiple accounts on your talk page.
Second, Wikipedia has standards and goals beyond just those governing the existence of a separate article, so I would disagree with the "there must be no other consideration" statement. The content note that I made was that it reads like a resume. These notes are to try to help give a nudge improve the article. When reviewing the references I noted that there is other material on him besides the resume type items. One "two bird with one stone" advice would be to try to expand and evolve the article using that material. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:04, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Tenghilan

Thanks for your response. I hope this Tenghilan article can be improved more in the future. Best wishes NikoUMS (talk) 08:08, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Creating AfDs - and your signature

Hallo, When you create an AfD like this one, please don't sign it until the end of your post. When I hover over the "discussion" in a list like this one, all I see is "Reason". If you hadn't signed it in the middle, I'd have seen at least the start of your argument, enough to make me decide whether to follow the link and look at the AfD discussion or just move on. I thought at first that perhaps you had created the AfD first with "reason" and then gone back to give more detail, but it seems that you did it all in one edit, with the problematic premature signature. Thanks. PamD 08:44, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

@PamD: Thanks for the heads up, including on why it's important to fix. From the discussions at new article curation, it's a malfunction of the new article curation tool, where it creates the first line but completely "loses" the "'reason" when entered in the proper place. So then I've been entering the "reason" a second time. The highly experienced folks know workarounds for the malfunction (e.g. using twinkle instead) that I don't. So I've been manually fixing it after the AFD page is created. More recently I've been deleting the bot-generated signature but based on the info in your your post I'll work that issue more thoroughly. Sincerely North8000 (talk) 13:10, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

You've got mail!

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Hello, North8000. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 20:47, 8 April 2020 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

MrClog (talk) 20:47, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

David Rice

North8000 -- Thank you for your reply. How, then, should I modify the entry for 2043 in order to pass muster? Please advise. DavRice (talk) 21:39, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

@DavRice: Hi David, as it says on my user page:"I like helping newbies, especially ones who are experts in their fields but are having trouble understanding Wikipedia....." That's my only interest, nothing to do with any particular page or article. It looked like you could use a little advice in a Wikipedia area that is often confusing to people that are new to it. If you like to understand Wikipedia more in this area I would read these two policies: WP:v and wp:nor which are two of the 3 important policies to read. I'd also be happy to help with any specific questions. North8000 (talk) 11:59, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

David Rice

Hello, North8000 -- Thank you for your reply. I am a little confused. On 2040s page, I got a response from HiLo48 -- but here also a response from yourself, North8000. I asked HiLo48 if he and you were known to each other and both working together -- he says no. So what is the situation. Is there more than one editor responsible for this? Or some overlapping? Please advise. Thank you -- David RiceDavRice (talk) 04:30, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

See above.North8000 (talk) 11:50, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


David Rice

Hello, North8000 -- Thank you, I appreciate your note. I have read up on the two areas, and replied in some detail to HiLo48. With thanks -- David RiceDavRice (talk) 06:47, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Article deletion

You submitted Mehki Raine for deletion and it has since been deleted. I had been editing it after your submission to make improvements and save the article and I believe the proper corrections were made to make the article credible but the deletion discussion was not updated after the edits. Is there any way the article can be restored? Bleu444 (talk) 17:25, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello @Bleu444: The question was not the quality of the article. The question is whether or not the topic complies with wp:notability requirements for existence as a separate article. This requires either meeting the sourcing requirements of wp:gng or meeting the special requirements at Wikipedia:Notability (music). Meeting Wikipedia:Notability (music) appears very unlikely which leaves meeting the sourcing requirements of WP:GNG. For that you basically need two independent published sources that have discussed the artist in depth. If / when you have found them you can simply recreate the article but include them. If not / until then, I would not recommended trying to bring it back. Let me know if I can be of further help. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:44, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Edgenuity

Hello! Thank you for your time reviewing the Edgenuity article. I understand what you mean when you say it feels like an advertisement, but after elaborating, I can't determine what I need to alter specifically. And trust me, I have no affiliation with this company, other than a student who uses and mildly dislike it. Can you state what wording, context, or sources need to be altered?

Le Panini (talk) 19:30, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@Le Panini: Thanks for the post. It helps me understand the situation in order to try to do a better job of helping. I think that what has happened is that you are extracting the most readily available facts from the sources and are ending up with mostly the types of things that the company would say the way they would say them. You did end up including criticisms, but you are missing a lot of the general and description that thorough independent sources would write to inform the reader about them.
Ideally the best sources to develop an article from are ones that independent in-depth coverage of the topic. Indeed one of wain ways to pass wp:notability for the topic is to see if there are a few of such sources. The article was sort of short on this but I decided that the amount of sourcing and real-world notability is so immense on this, and that it is an encyclopedic topic which many people will be coming to Wikipedia for (especially now) that I certainly shouldn't fail (send to wp:afd) it on wp:notability, and that it would certainly be kept at AFD if I did. Upon closer look, I see that you have a really tough job here. None of the sources in the article are quite that ideal one. So in short, your job as an editor is tough because you are short on the best kind of sources to build an article from., Searching is tough because so much coverage is either by the supplier or by schools who bought it and thus are supporting it / their decision.
I searched harder and found some that I think could help in this respect:
Another way to look at it is to think of someone who doesn't know what Edgenuity is and goes to Wikipedia to find out. The vague "advertisement" type statements don't say very much. My suggestion would be to read those 4 sources (not that they are perfect) and to take what you learned and derived from them to answer the question "What is Edgenuity?" Hopefully that helps a little. Let me know if I can help. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:19, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Cheers!

Beer Barnstar.png The Beer Barnstar
Thanks North8000 for taking the time to review pages for NPP! AugusteBlanqui (talk) 09:55, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
@AugusteBlanqui: Thanks. Keep up the good work.....a double benefit....to Wikipedia and to your students. North8000 (talk) 14:36, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Center for the Political Future notability tag

Hello! Thank you for reviewing my page USC Center for the Political Future. I see that you added a note saying it may have issues with notability. I was hoping you could elaborate more on that. I've tried to submit other articles and this has had the most success.

The first two sources I have are reliable sources, at least I think they are. They are the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times. Both of those articles not only make passing mention of the Center for the Political Future but talk about it in depth. I also found this source from POLITICO, which mentions the Center for the Political Future, but it is in reference to the LA Times article about its launch. I haven't added it yet but wanted to run it by you before I did to see if you thought it would alleviate your edits.

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated I am hoping to fix any problems with this page that I can in order to make my article as good as it can be.--HarrisonJ09 (talk) 16:42, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

@HarrisonJ09: I think that that if you put that extra source in that would put it over the top on notability. The question isn't wp:reliability; it's about having in-depth coverage about the topic of the article. I'm going to assume that you will and remove the tag and mark it as reviewed. Regarding advice on how to improve the article, the article, and particularly the body of the article is really short on discussing the topic of the article, the center itself. Two ideas regarding this:
  • The sources that you noted have good material for this; suggesting getting some of that material on the center itself from those and putting it into the body of the article, and maybe add a sentence summary to the lead.
  • Most of the material that you do have about the center itself is only in the lead. The lead should be a summary of what is in the body of the article. Suggest moving that to the body of the article and them summarizing that in the lead.
Not that the other material you have in there isn't already good stuff. Happy editing and let me know if I can help further. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:10, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks so much! I added the citation and will review the changes and start working on them.--HarrisonJ09 (talk) 17:36, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Jeffrey Mishlove

I edited the Jeffrey Mishlove article and removed some puffery and redundant content. I also removed your tag, you can retag if you think it is still not up to par. MistyGraceWhite (talk) 11:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

@MistyGraceWhite: Thanks for the post. I think that there is a bit of confusion here; I'm not the one who tagged it. It was tagged for general enclyclopedic rewrite before I reviewed it. When I got to it I noticed two very peacocky/unenclyclopedic phrases in there which I took out and also a general wording/prose type issue to where it looked like just a bunch of choppy list of statements put in as single sentence paragraphs. (In my post at the talk page I was mostly thinking about the latter and I didn't have a puffery / peacocky concern after I took out those two phrases. You fixed the writing issue, it looks great albeit short. You may wish to consider re-adding any actual content that you took out. Happy editing. North8000 (talk) 12:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Please stop leaving Page Curation messages on my talk page

I have basically never started the articles you're sending me messages about, only the redirects. Use PageTriage or manually send the Page Curation message to the editor who actually created the content on the page. If you reply to me, I have turned pings off, so using that or the reply template will not work. Besides that, I do not need a message back about this either here or on my talk page. Ss112 21:07, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ss112: You indicated messageS; I've only sent you one. And you are the one who created the page that I had the advice on, even though, as you note, others created most of the content. I'll try to remember that you specifically don't want any heads-up when it involves pages that you created, but I can't promise. Either way it looks like it is unlikely to come up again. North8000 (talk) 21:28, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
I was referring to the messages you have sent me in the previous two months to do with Page Curation. Regardless, thank you. Ss112 21:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

AfDs

Please use Twinkle for creating AfDs. Apart from it being much easier than doing manually, it will avoid errors like this - this AfD doesn't use any of the standard templates so it will not correctly appear on the log page. SD0001 (talk) 05:44, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@SD0001: Thanks for the post. So my "mistake" was to use the main official way to do it, which doesn't work work!  :-) I plan to learn twinkle but haven't yet. So far I have found info that talks about it, and how to enable it, but not how to use it. North8000 (talk) 11:17, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
There's nothing to learn. You just have to click/hover over the "TW" button, click XFD, enter your rationale and hit submit. While there does exist a brief usage guide at WP:TW/DOC, you don't really have to read it, you can figure out everything on the fly. SD0001 (talk) 11:54, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
@SD0001: Well, you just wrote the key missing part from the guide. Thanks. North8000 (talk) 13:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)


WP:Notability workshop

North8000's description of how wp:notability actually works right now

Currently Wikipedia's notability requirement is an immensely complex kludge that mostly works but which few really understand. And most of the few that do do so instinctively from experience rather than being able to describe it. Here's an outline of what it structurally is and how it works:

The lead of wp:notability is not a summary of the body, it is a separate meta-guideline which defines Wikipedia's requirements for existence as a separate article. In essence it says:

A topic is presumed (with a seldom-noticed link to REBUTTABLE presumption) to merit an article if:
  • It is not clearly excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy.
  • It fulfills either the body of the wp:notability guideline (which uses sourcing as it's criteria and is often called "WP:GNG", deliberately not linked) or a relevant listed subject-specific guideline ("SNG")

Rather than being written worded as being authoritative criteria, the guidelines use vaguer, softer wording, in essence saying that they are merely indicators. Operatively, that means saying that they are mere predictors of community wp:notability decisions made at WP:AFD. The operative parts of the SNG's provide alternate ways (besides the sourcing based requirement in the body of wp:notability) to fulfill the wp:notability requirement. The SNG criteria give lip service to sourcing requirements by saying that they are merely predictors of sourcing, but that lip service has no operational effect.

The actual operative wp:notability criteria is community decisions at wp:afd. Wp:afd has a sort of circular relationship with the notability guidelines; the guidelines usually heavily influence results at wp:AFD, but the guidelines are written as if they are merely predictors of what will happen at wp:afd. Wp:notability-related decisions at wp:afd are based on (in decreasing order of importance):

  • Degree of compliance with either the body of wp:gng OR with an applicable SNG. (but sometimes the degree of compliance with the "un-applicable" of the two is also taken into consideration.)
  • Past precedence at wp:afd where such bypasses/overrides the written notability guidelines. Most of these exceptions are documented at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes but a few others are unwritten.
  • Regarding wp:GNG, allowance for proportion of coverage to notability. For example, allowing for the fact that there is likely less coverage of a notable 200 year old historical topic than of a non-notable current local kid's baseball team.
  • Degree of enclyclopedic-ness of the topic, including degree of compliance with What Wikipedia is not. Note that, beyond the separate test of meeting the low bar of not being clearly excluded by What Wikipedia is not, degree of compliance and degree of enclyclopedic-ness is also an influence on "notability" decisions.

The most common review of whether or not to nominate an article to wp:afd occurs by the new article review/curation process / new page patrol. They try to follow the same criteria as above.

So what is missing?

I've now had a chance to read this (thank you) and to read the network of pages connected to WP:N. I think some recent edits helped but, as you say, none of it is written... can be written succinctly because it's sort of like a fluid version of one of those pictures which is either a face silhouette or a vase, depending how you look at it. GNG/SNG vs AfD, I mean. I've been trying to find simpler ways to be succinct about what might warrant a new article over on the page where we're sketching out a possible Request an article wizard. I've taken the liberty of focusing a lot on the word 'significant'. I know we use it alongside 'coverage' but we also use it to describe putting in people, here. Anyway, is that the kind of thing that could be a simpler explanation around the subject of whether or not a thing belongs here? -- BessieMaelstrom (talk) 23:09, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

What are the issues & Problems? Discussion

Treat this subsection as a talk page

To get us going, I'm bringing over some pertinent bits from the last discussion. (Apologies if this is really clumsy of me.) There was this:

The fact that wp:notability has so many kluges (SNG's) , patches (SNG's) widely accepted exceptions, and some glaring imbalances and is such a source of confusion means that some tuneup is needed. Even though the system mostly works. Sometimes the best policy is to put into words the common sense decision-making which mostly works. This would be:

A decision that weighs all three of these:

  • Degree of Enclyclopedicness (a consideration aside from just meeting the low bar of wp:not)
  • Real world notability as gauged by #3
  • Coverage in sources per the last 3/4 of wp:gng. And, besides being this it's own criteria, it is also the gauge for #2 although it must be unequally applied to compensate for coverage-heavy and coverage-light fields.

And determines if the the result is enough to merit an article in an encyclopedia which will "only" have 10 or 20 million articles.[1]

And this:

... there are some "in progress" states as you are alluding to. One is for cases explicitly defined in the SNG's where sources are presumed to exist.[2]

And this, ref types of articles in Wikipedia:

  • Vital Articles on major aspects of nature (eg: geography) and humanity (eg: world wars) that stand on a foundation of common knowledge
  • Key Articles that stand on a foundation of broad collective knowledge (eg: Lego); one might call that 'renown'
  • Subject Articles that require a foundation of evidence in order to be verified[3]

Plus these things:

  1. WP:V is non-negotiable; notability can't override that[4]
  2. The GNG and SNGs are equal as providing presumptions of notability[5]
  3. Some topics/people are “worthy” of having an entire article devoted to them (ie a lot of notice)... while others are only “worthy” of mention in the context of some other, related article (ie only a little notice). Again, we look to the source coverage to determine which level of notice applies.[6]
  4. SNG's stated principles and advice are contrary to their operative statements [7]
  5. Another other guide... defacto says that a whole lot of topics are defacto exempt from wp:notability[8]
  6. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes[9]
  7. Other unwritten accepted practices which are applied[10]
  8. Lack of any clear and consistently used statement of what wp:notability is[11]
  9. The actual wp:notability standard is unwritten, and is a combination of the ostensible notability standard, plus degree of enclyclopedicness[12]

Aims

  1. to identify the main entry-points where WP offers a statement on the validity of creating a new article and how to make that judgement[13]
  2. to produce answers to the questions that new editors might ask when pondering their first article[14]
  3. to unify those answers into a single (working) definition[15]
  4. to identify all main front doors (four identified?)[16]

References

Result: List of the issues and problems? Working draft

Treat this subsection as an article page. Ok to modify text, no signatures needed

The overall topic of wp:Notability is too hard to learn and too difficult/complex for newcomers to understand in a way that doesn't put them off posting a new article

Is "Harmlessness" a criteria at all? qv WT:Notability#North8000's_description_of_how_wp:notability_actually_works_right_now (David Eppstein 2020-06-07 18:19)

Speedy deletion declined: 2020 Shanghai Golden Grand Prix

Hello North8000. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of 2020 Shanghai Golden Grand Prix, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: importance asserted as part of 2020 Diamond League, consider redirecting per WP:ATD-R. Thank you. SoWhy 08:32, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks

I read your message on my talk page regarding the Jabot (horse) article I got started -- but then forgot to reply to it. So, thanks for taking the time to be thoughtful. It is appreciated.Stretchrunner (talk) 03:44, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Request

Amirul Momenin Manik review this page. Arif (talk) 11:58, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

@Md Arif bd: Thanks for the invite. All of the references are in a language that I don't speak and I'm not fluent at electronically translating that amount of material so I think I'll need to leave that article for somebody who is better than me at that. Sorry and happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:26, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:12, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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I had already participated. North8000 (talk) 12:15, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:27, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Pass North8000 (talk) 12:28, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:35, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:42, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:58, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello!

Hi North, came here for two reasons... 1) To let you know I still haven't finished Cornwall Electric yet, but with Wehwalt's kind offer of a first look, I'm confident it can only get better... and maybe enough to submit it for a GA review one day. I wish I could finish it, but cannot. There are four library books I should read, but COVID-19 has kept the place closed for months now. I saw a glimmer of hope this week that they may do a partial opening in a few weeks! 2) Congrats on the New Page Review Rights! I hope you're enjoying the work and that you find it rewarding. Ok... enough of that... now back to work... I want to see your name closer to Rosguill's name here one day. All the Best!  :) -- WILDSTARtalk 19:29, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Ways to improve Justine Kerfoot

Hello, North8000,

Thank you for creating Justine Kerfoot.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

Hi, thanks for creating the article. It would be useful to make plain in the introduction why this person meets Wikipedia's Notability critera (See: Wikipedia:Notability (people)). She evident lived an interesting life, but this itself isn't 'notability'. Please also move the section 'un-used references' into the article's talk page as this sort of information might be useful to other wikipedia editors but not to the article itself. Thanks

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Zakhx150}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Zakhx150 (talk) 16:06, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Zakhx150:Thanks for reviewing the article. I'm an active new page reviewer and we really need more folks reviewing and helping with the backlog. The article is only a 1/2 day old, being built in article space, and obviously needs work and and so the copy editing tag and note on unused references are very appropriate. But there is one tag which IMO was applied in error which I plan to remove. The Wikipedia wp:notability requirement is to fulfill either the main guideline (the body of WP:GNG which is sourcing-based) or the applicable listed SNG which in this case is Wikipedia:Notability (people). IMO extensive suitable sourcing to fulfill WP:GNG exists and also has been provided in the article. This means that establishing fulfillment of one of the specialty criteria at Wikipedia:Notability (people) is not required. Nevertheless, addition of that information as you suggested is a great idea and already planned. Thanks again. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:38, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Pure Storage COI Help

Hi North8000. My employer Pure Storage was accused of covertly editing the page, but I am not entirely clear what my predecessor did wrong to cause this. I suspect there is some miscommunication. Would you be willing to take a look? Happy to do whatever is needed to get the company in compliance. KimberlyLe55 (talk) 19:22, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I'd be happy to take a look. North8000 (talk) 01:16, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Advice

Hello North8000. Can you help me understand the meaning of "1-2 independent sources with in depth coverage", so that I can edit better in the future. WP:GNG says: "Significant coverage addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material."

So with that in mind, and using the article Mothers of Diyarbakır as example, would sourcing these articles from Al Jazeera and Reuters not fix that issue? If not, what am I missing? -Randam (talk) 22:26, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

There were a lot of sources there already (at nomination- ime) with only brief mentions and then a lot of sources added after the AFD, with a large amount non-english. Non-english is fine but it also some of the context for my following empathy note.
The only thing that you are "missing" is process side and empathy-for-the-reviewers related at the AFD. They are volunteers and are not able to spend hours on each article....e.g. to continuously monitor what gets added and translate and review dozens of sources to find that "needle in the haystack" . Later in the process a few times I suggested that someone who wished to advocate keeping it to select and point out 1-2 sources which they feel meet wp:GNG requirements. Nobody did that there, and you sort of did that (only) here. So my advice is to do there what you (only) did here. More specifically my advice is to put something like: "I believe that Al Jazeera and Reuters are WP:GNG-suitable sources."
Note that yesterday I already changed my position to "keep" based on post-AFD additions plus the work and assessment of another editor. Happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:26, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. I see now what the miscommunication was and hope my shortcomings are attributed to my inexperience. Thank you for your advice. --Randam (talk) 03:42, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Happy to do it. North8000 (talk) 03:49, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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doneNorth8000 (talk) 19:05, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Mymensingh Power Station

I think it is not in a required shape to even run an afd on it, but also not a piece of puffery, it is evidence from Mymensingh government website that it is notable, so shifted to draft space, might someone will improve itMajun e Baqi (talk) 18:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

@Majun e Baqi: Thanks for your work and it is clearly not a piece of puffery. wp:notability, which primarily looks for coverage on the topic, goes hand in hand with being able to write an article on it. In this case, no coverage in sources, no article content, and the station does not currently exist. Either now or after it comes into existence, the best thing that you can do would be to finde sources that cover it and put them into the article. If you need any help let me know. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:18, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

lol, to understand the issue, if possible I may add sources in English and Bangla as early as possible, so improving in draftspace will be better, what you think??? and will definitely take your advice before moving it to main space Majun e Baqi (talk) 19:23, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Sure. I'd be happy to advise / help. North8000 (talk) 20:57, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

I have tried to some extent and still work in progress, would you please comment on its notability at this stage thanksMajun e Baqi (talk) 21:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

@Majun e Baqi: One question.... The lead of the article says that it is a proposed power station. One of the references seems to list it as an existing power station. Does it currently exist? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 05:35, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Ah! I think it is already started because it was proposed project in 2017-18 government session Majun e Baqi (talk) 11:02, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Regarding wp:notability, technically, that is a characteristicc of the topic rather than the article. But as a practical matter you really need to have sources in there. Also, in practice, a generating facility will get a less stringent wp:notability treatment. Knowing that it probably already exists plus with the new sources it could already survive a wp:notability-based AFD. But the text of the article is in really bad shape so why not work on that in draft space. In particular, you need text in there to clearly make the key informative statements. Right now that is lacking. Happy Editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:01, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Can you please try to overcome the bad shape of the text over there, ya, it is better to improve in the draft space, hope you will. Majun e Baqi (talk) 05:55, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
When I made my last post I didn't notice your latest work there. For example, prior to you latest work there was not even a statement that said whether or not the plant exists yet. With your latest (July 3) work you have the basic facts in there. I think that betqween the text and added references it's good enough to have in mainspace. North8000 (talk) 13:42, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
I moved it to mainspace and will withdraw my AFD nomination. Happy editing! North8000 (talk) 13:45, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Today's Wikipedian 10 years ago

Awesome
Cscr-featured.svg
Ten years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:39, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 13:05, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm only the messenger, - thank Rlevse ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:03, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
lol, happy editing Majun e Baqi (talk) 15:04, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Remedy for the bot's mistake

I think bot have again put the deletion template, hope you will solve this problemMajun e Baqi (talk) 15:12, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I think it will all work out...the AFD will be closed as "keep" and then the template removed. North8000 (talk) 19:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Denial of genocide of Serbs in the NDH

I have made some changes in the article Denial of genocide of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia. Is the page better now? Do all parts now cover the topic directly? Can the Off-topic and Coatrack templates be removed now?--WEBDuB (talk) 16:10, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

I think that between your changes and the one off-topic section/paragraph that I removed that the issue that triggered the two current tags has been resolved. I don't know the overall situation well enough to know how objectively-written the article is. My gut feel is that it is objectively written (except for a few poorly worded sentences) because the article is structured as a series of sourced facts/statements. This may be inevitable if there is some type of contest going on at the article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:58, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at Draft: Mushir Husain Qidwai

 You are invited to join the discussion at Draft: Mushir Husain Qidwai. Kindly, have a look so I may publish it to main space Majun e Baqi (talk) 16:55, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Happy to. The main question for the existence of the article is wp:notability; everything else is a matter of article development. In the case of this article the likely route to that is wp;GN which is sourcing based. The article has brief on-line sources and substantial off-line sources. I don't have access to the off line sources. The on-line sources do not constitute wp:GNG type coverage but do indicate prominence of a type to mean that suitable coverage is sources probably exists. And and it probably exists in the referenced off-line sources. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 04:49, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at Madni Miyan

 You are invited to join the discussion at Madni Miyan. I have added sources to an article with sources, kindly have a look for its notability, mentioning I am not the creator of this article, lots of loveMajun e Baqi (talk) 17:13, 16 July 2020 (UTC) Majun e Baqi (talk) 17:13, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Team Barnstar Hires.png The Teamwork Barnstar
Thanks for your helps regarding New page Patroler works, you deserve this atleast, lots of love Majun e Baqi (talk) 17:29, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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Sending me notifications about "pages I started"

I understand that it is automatically sent to me if I made the redirect, but I believe this is the third or so time I'm asking you to not leave me "Page Curation" notices as none of the times you've left me these have I been the user who created the content on the article. If you find you've sent me one in the future, please remove it after. Can you please remove the Page Curation notice from my talk page that you left there minutes ago, and put it on the talk page of User talk:KpopMonica, who created the content? Also, regarding your comment on the page, Loona does have an article. The user just capitalised their name in the lead. Pings do not work for me as I've turned them off, and I don't see the point in having a conversation about this anyway. I'm just asking yo uto remember this for the future. Thank you. Ss112 01:52, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

@MSs12: I deleted that post from your talk page. I looked and in the process you received 3 posts form me; one compliment, and two noting that I passed the article with suggestions. The new page curation volunteer folks have to review approximately 700 articles per day (about 255,000 per year). At my current pace I'll be doing approximately 2,000 articles per year and even that is less than 1% of the total. Which of these sounds more reasonable to you:?
  1. Me try to remember and fulfill special requests from each of those. Such as analyzing each one to find cases where the page creator was not the main creator of the content and the find a way to override the page curation process and send the note (typically a compliment) to who I judge to be the largest content creator instead of the page creator.
  2. You just delete any unwanted posts regarding pages that you created instead of implying that I am remiss because I did not do #1?

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Here's a barnstar!

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
I'm grateful for your review of Ryan-Mark Parsons and your kind feedback too. Makes everything worth the effort. JPA24 (talk) 14:03, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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July

July
Thistles, Lorch.jpg
pale globe-thistle above the Rhine

Please help watch tomorrow's TFA about the beginning of scouting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:16, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks for the post. Will do. North8000 (talk) 19:58, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

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Species articles

Hi, I saw your comments at Starzoner's talk page - Good start. We tilt wp:notability a bit for plants/animals, but usually not down to the species level unless well known, but I'm marking it as reviewed. Happy editing. Please be aware that this is not the case. If a species has been formally described, we automatically consider it notable and worthy of a standalone article. The cutoff level is at subspecies - we only do subspecies articles if there is an unusual amount to say about the taxon, so that it cannot be comfortably accommodated in the species article. For a species articles, there have to be special circumstances for it not to be considered notable: nomen dubium (or nomen nudum, if the dice fall that way), synonyms obviously, or absence of either original description or reliable log of same in commonly used databases. Whether the species is well known or not does not figure into it - otherwise we would not have ten thousand bettle stubs :) - The closest to a clear codification of this is WP:SPECIESOUTCOMES, which is yeah, not very impressive. But as a NPP reviewer you have to keep it in mind please. Cheers! --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 21:10, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello @Elmidae: Thanks for the post. I just try to do the job as well as I can. Since the outcomes article is not policy or a guideline, I don't accept its pronouncements, but do accept it as a indicator of common outcomes, which I tend to follow. On the other side of the scale, I've seen the most core people at wp:notability talk say that this is not the case for individual species as there are millions of individual species and that (plus nothing that says otherwise in any policy or guidelines) was the basis for my comment. As I'm sure that you noted, I passed all of your individual species articles. Between the listing at common outcomes, plus seeing that an editor has taken the time to create a real article on an individual species, plus a species articles being on very encyclopedic topics (which I tend to weight), IMO that merits a "Pass" in those cases despite the opposite guidance from core folks at wp:notability talk. Thanks for your post and for creating the articles, and reinforcing that we both think the same regarding the end result which I intend to continue to follow. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 00:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Hmm. Every so often some newbie nominates a valid species for AfD because it is "not notable"; these are always kept, generally speedily. There is really no wiggle room in the current practice, and no expectation that a valid species would not survive AfD. Telling people otherwise is misleading. I do believe you are doing article creators a disservice by suggesting that their species article is borderline notable but you'll let it pass. That's just not the case. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 00:36, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello @Elmidae: Thanks for the post. You've reinforced my thoughts further and I'll just pass those without any such note. Thanks. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 00:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
And thanks in return for your good collegiality! :) --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 00:52, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

@North8000:

Hi North! Thanks for the nice words! One rarely gets anything nice on Wikipedia these days...I even had someone put a page I created on speedy deletion because he or she said it was "promotional" nevermind my almost 20 years writing here about different topics! (that are notable and I enjoy) so your compliment was refreshing!

Once again thanks and God bless you! ~~~~ Antonio el chetos Martin (dime) 12:27, August 4, 2020 (UTC)

@AntonioMartin: Thanks. Yes, too often Wikipedia is a nasty place, by the normal practices of even non-nasty people. I think that putting one's self in the shoes of the other person and letting that be a guide goes a long way. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:14, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Support on a page you reviewed

Hello North8000. You were so kind to leave feedback after reviewing Ryan-Mark Parsons. As you may know, I'm relatively new to Wikipedia and I'm really not sure how to deal with this new and ongoing problem. A banned user once 'recreated' the page after an IP user blanked and redirected the page. The banned user only reverted vandalism and hasn't made any further edits on the page. A confirmed user redirected the page, but later agreed with restoring the page after I reverted the redirection, as they explained they didn't look at the page's history. I'm now fearing that because this banned user has edited the page ONCE (to just revert IP vandalism), it has cast a horrible shadow over the article and I don't think that's fair. There has been no discussion in the talk page either before removing content. The page is already semi-protected, but if that's increased I won't be able to edit the page that I have created. Any guidance or support would be appreciated. JPA24 (talk) 05:01, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello @JPA24:. I hope that I am being of service to you by being direct. First, a quick note on my review. The think we most focus on is compliance with wp:notability. Generally if it meets that wp:notability, then it probably stays and everything else can be fixed later. When I reviewed the article, my impression was that this barely meets wp:notability, but does. Plus it had a "Keep" decision at AFD. Which also means that there is not a lot of in-depth coverage in sources to build an article from. My impression was that someone managed to make a pretty good article despite all of that and thus the compliment. With the core 30 people at new page patrol needing to handle about 700 articles per day, I didn't go much deeper in than that. If there is any "shadow" over the article it's that at first glance at it, and your role in it, and focus of the short wiki-career of JPA24 and a few other signs, it has the appearance of you being overly committed to the person who is the subject of this article, and the ramifications related to that. It is very unlikely that protection of the article would be increased to the point of you not being able to edit it.
The person (Drmies) who has edited and discussed there a bit there is an extremely expert, careful senior editor. With the caveat that most of the people you interact with have not had the time to thoroughly learn you or the article, whatever Drmies says or does would also be a good thing to listen to or learn from.
I'm happy to help people get a start. So the next question is: what would like to do next in Wikipedia or the article? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello North8000. Thank you so much for elaborating on the review you left on the article. I've mentioned this to other users as well, I'm currently learning each day whilst using Wikipedia. My short-term goal for my relatively new Wiki-career is to get a C-Class for an article - this happened to be on the subject of Ryan-Mark Parsons. There was a consensus to 'keep' the article following AfD discussion and as other users pointed out, it meets grounds for notability. Once I feel more confident and achieved this article milestone, I'd like to focus on a new subject (most likely British TV which is my interest). I only do this to pass the time and it has been helpful during lockdown.

Moving forward, if you have any advice on how to improve the quality of the article from Start-Class to C-Class, I'm completely open to feedback and would be very grateful, merely to enhance my own understanding of this platform. JPA24 (talk) 17:48, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I think that you have done a pretty skillfully written article considering what you have to work with with this topic and the sources. Articles are written from sources, and borderline wp:notability means borderline on in depth coverage by independent sources. If you are able to find any more independent sources with in-depth coverage, and build material from them that would be a good thing. For anyone reviewing the article one thing to understand is that it will be under the magnifying glass as a possibly promotional article. After a medium depth read there were two things that jumped out at me in that area:
  • "The Before his media career, Parsons was a Brand Ambassador for Gucci within Harrods and Aspinal of London; plus several internships at the Palace of Westminster, Matrix Chambers, 5 King's Bench Walk, AIG and NHS" sounds like some vague promotional material from his self-generated bio which a source might have parroted. Real enclyclopedic coverage would be a dispassionate more detailed coverage of what exactly he did in those roles.
  • The wording about going to the hospital due to dropping caviar on his foot sounds more like wording from his PR team about a publicity stunt rather than a third party encyclopedic description of what actually happened. I wasn't able to look at the source (it won't display in the US) but either way my comment is about the text in the article.
Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Forgot to ping @JPA24: North8000 (talk) 11:05, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you North8000. I'm going to work on this feedback and hopefully other editors will notice these points and make improvements too. Thanks again for all of your support. JPA24 (talk) 11:14, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

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Motion at Amendment request: North8000

A motion was posted on 21 August regarding the amendment request. It can be viewed at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#North8000 restrictions: Motion. You may have already seen this and apologies for the belated notice on my part. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 12:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Dreamy Jazz: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 13:29, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

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Amendment request: North8000 motion enacted and amendment request archived

The motion North8000 restrictions: Motion has been enacted and the amendment request has been archived to Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests#Amendment request: North8000. The enacted motion is as follows:

North8000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was restricted by motion in December 2016 (Motion regarding North80000). Recognizing North8000's productive contributions and renewed voluntary commitments, the restrictions are suspended for one year, during which time the restrictions may be re-imposed (individually or entirely) upon request to WP:ARCA if warranted. Any restrictions not reimposed will automatically expire at the end of the one year period.

For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 21:06, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding North8000

@Dreamy Jazz: Thanks for the heads up! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 01:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 15:33, 29 August 2020 (UTC)


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Done North8000 (talk) 13:07, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

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Help with writing an article split

Hi there, you recently made an edit at the Ely, Minnesota article and I am wondering if you would be interested in helping me out with that page. I have not lived in Minnesota for years but I continue to have a very strong connection to the state. I had worked on the Ely article and added a considerable amount of copy some years ago and recently read a news article that mentioned the current copper-nickle mining controversy that is presently going on in Minnesota. I also do a great deal of editing on the environment, for example I am the leading editor of Environmental policy of the Donald Trump administration (and I also added it to that article), so that sparked my interest. Anyway, after reading the article I thought that I'd just add a few words to update the history section. As I read more and more about the plans to introduce copper-nickle mining I found that the conglomerate that plans to open the Ely mine also have questionable ties to Trump and his presidency. So that added to my interest as well because I have concerns about corporate ownership of our country. I'd like to get more into that aspect but the section I've added is already too long and anything more is out of the question. I would like to split that section off while leaving a substantial but much smaller overview at the article. Also, the split would be very good for both the Trump and the BWCA articles and perhaps several other MN Iron Range articles as well. I've never written an article but I am wondering if you might do that, if you have the interest of course. Hope I am not being too wordy here but this subject is very important to me. Thanks for your time. Gandydancer (talk) 18:42, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello @Gandydancer: I love working with folks on articles, and am overall probably the most active editor on "northwoods" articles so the answer is almost certainly "yes". But I don't understand what new article you have in mind. Could you clarify? Thanks.
BTW Patagonia made a cool short film about combined BWCA and the mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR_69AnAg1Y&t=47s
Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:19, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
Lovely, lovely, lovely film. I am speaking of the new addition I made to the Ely article which discusses the proposed copper mine which is only a few miles from Ely and just adjacent to the BWCA. Gandydancer (talk) 19:46, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
So you mean an article on the proposed mine (and the related processes, actions and controversy)? Sounds like an article that should exist if it doesn't already. Fist step would be to find a couple of sources/articles that cover it in depth. This will confirm wp:notability and also provide a sources for some material to start with. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:59, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
The NYT has this: [1] The Mpls Star Trib has this (an editorial but it is the Trib's position): [2] There may be more that I have already used in the article--I will check. Gandydancer (talk) 20:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
OK, just clarifying, you are thinking about doing it on the Twin Metals mine specifically? FYI, for editors who are newer at it, the safest route is to get the article somewhat fully built as a draft somewhere, then submit it at wp:AFC and get it blessed and them move it into article space. Being more experienced and less patient, I'm thinking that we'll work on it briefly in a draft space to the point of deciding on a title and having enough sourcing in there to confirm wp:notability and then move it into article space to build it there. I'll start a draft space (including a talk page) right away so that, after it's moved our discussions will be with the article history rather than in my talk page history. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:35, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
OK,
Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:43, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. Yes, I believe that it would be best to just stick with the Ely mine rather than to include the Iron Range proposals. I would appreciate as much help as possible as my health has been very poor, plus I have a new computer that is almost driving me crazy. I'm surprised that I was able to do as much as I did at the Ely article. Here is one more site from PBS: [3] I'll move over to the new site now. Gandydancer (talk) 21:03, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Uh oh, maybe

I think I may have edit conflicted with you at WP:RSN = HuffPo...will you take a look? If I did, my sincerest apologies. Atsme Talk 📧 17:49, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @Atsme:That was weird....it took my edit and it's in the edit history but it disappeared. I reentered. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:05, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
The new edit conflict fixer-upper usually keeps both edits and gives you the option of putting one before the other, or vice versa. I thought I was adding mine after yours but instead, it deleted yours. ??? Thank you for the fix. Atsme Talk 📧 18:07, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 12:46, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:30, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

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ONUS

Hello, thank you for your comments at the RfC proposal section at (however we abbreviate the talk page for WP:V). I don't want to talk to everyone simultaneously or dominate the discussion more, so maybe I could hear your thoughts here before distilling some comments onto the page? I have a lot of questions to work out but I'm not sure how much you want to get into this. Thanks in advance for whatever you'd like to discuss. (I should note that I'm not sure if I understand the middle part of your comment.)

By your interpretation of ONUS, "", does that simply mean that an editor must provide a reason other than V to include challenged text, just as an editor must provide a reason other than "I don't like it" to remove the text? I think that does make sense as the original intention of the policy, especially if the first sentence of the policy is meant to be the defining text. (I just found this essay which speaks to part of the ONUS discussion: Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus".) I'm under the impression that the onus policy has been used in a way that is also related to WP:CONSENSUS, which makes sense to me because of the last two sentences. Maybe the policy should be split between WP:V and WP:CONSENSUS?

The second two sentences are where the confusion seems to lie. It sounds like the two sentences are in reverse order, if it's meant to say that if the editor who wishes to add text fails to achieve consensus then the consensus is to omit the text. Then we get into the question of ONUS and removal....and what the CONSENSUS piece of ONUS actually looks like in practice.

So, another question is, regardless of how ONUS is interpreted, what policy do we want? Do we want to say that once a change to consensus is clearly contentious the status quo ante version should be in place pending discussion, which would function as a sort of a trigger for WP:Consensus Required? Although based on the discussion at Talk WP:V I would expect that proposal to be strongly opposed, and it may not be possible to answer these questions without also addressing their concerns by determining whether a status quo version without clear consensus should remain in place pending discussion over contentious changes. Kolya Butternut (talk) 02:43, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the post. BTW I'll be off the grid Sept 26th - Oct 4th. My post was somewhat abstract and wandering and so I think easily misread. For me your post covers a lot of big topics.....I'll just says some things and see where we go from there. Long story short, on the immediate question at hand my opinion is to leave it as is. If I could mess with the big picture it would be:
  • Add to wp:ver: "Meeting wp:verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion". This is actually a summary of what wp:does and doesn't say, but too many people think the opposite. One thing that this would say would be that one could not used that the material is sourced as an argument for inclusion.
  • Create a new guideline or widely quoted essay that describes how inclusion / exclusion decision are made. Where policy does not clearly dictate the anser, it's based on a decision which is based on many factors combined.
  • Add somewhere: "when making inclusion/exclusion decisions, give the status quo a little extra sway, and when doing so, also consider strength or weakness of it's position as the status quo"
Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 10:58, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
So we're discussing what WP:ONUS means, but what does WP:CONSENSUS mean? I think using the words status quo is confusing here because QUO is a separate concept, so I'll say "previous consensus". The previous consensus only gets more sway in my opinion because presumably the editors who wrote the consensus text or who read the text and agreed with it, are not participating in the local discussion over changing the text. That's why CONSENSUS states that when there is no consensus for a change the previous consensus will remain. The "sway" is already written into policy.
Does it also seem to you that the last two sentences of ONUS have been often interpreted by editors as an extension of CONSENSUS? [[User:|Kolya Butternut]] (talk) 14:41, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
@Kolya Butternut: In my view this touches on lot of different fundamental areas which would take a book length post to answer :-) and where I've already given my 30,000' view. But briefly, wp:consensus is the closest thing to a real roadmap for discussions. Even it does not talk about giving the status quo a tiny bit of weight in discussions, but one level up it does so in the roadmap for when consensus is or isn't reached and the "presumed consensus" concept. In my view wp:onus should be deleted. It's only there as a band-aid because we've failed to put the badly-needed sentence "WP:verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion" into wp:ver. The topic doesn't belong in wp:ver and what is there doesn't cover the topic. IMO the only reason wp:onus it is heavily used instead of wp:consensus which covers it better is because it's in a more prominent policy, and because it is short and because it has a convenient handle "Onus" unofficially attached. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 10:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, just remove the "WP:ONUS" shortcut, leave "WP:VNOTSUFF", perhaps add "WP:VNOTGUARANTEE" or "WP:VNOTENOUGH". The concept of ONUS seems to be essential, so I think we should move the handle "WP:ONUS" to WP:CONSENSUS. Kolya Butternut (talk) 11:36, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Just wanted to make sure you saw my last comment at WT:V. The page is getting confusing. Kolya Butternut (talk) 03:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello @Kolya Butternut: I'm assuming that you meant the Oct 25th post. I did read it twice, but that's as far as I got. To really understand it would need a lot of reading/analysis at the referenced policies/guidelines which I frankly didn't do. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:25, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm confused; I thought you felt my proposal was a baby-step you agreed with? Kolya Butternut (talk) 13:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
@Kolya Butternut:Yes I would have supported that.   But your proposal included a huge second proposal: "new section at WP:CONSENSUS § Achieving consensus#Onus to clearly define Onus as applying to new additions, removals, and modifications?" Which makes it mal-formed (two proposals in one). Also the second proposal is a huge and vaguely defined one.North8000 (talk) 13:57, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
I felt that it belonged under the Achieving consensus section rather than just adding the wikilink to No consensus, if that's what you agreed to as the baby step. I also guess I missed that we didn't agree that there was a lack of clarity about the onus policy. You mentioned that you felt it would take several steps to create a new section under Consensus, what sorts of steps would those be? Kolya Butternut (talk) 14:08, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
@Kolya Butternut: We agree there was a lack of clarity about the onus policy, although (as a sidebar) not that it is significant problem. That does not translate into your particular approach of your RFC. Regarding the several steps, they would be:
  1. Replace the current wp:onus at wp:ver with "verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion." Move the rest of that section to wp:consensus. Change the target of wp:onus to that moved text
  2. That move will make the conflict/ ambiguity more obvious. Resolve that by modifying wp:consensus per the result of a discussion there.
The above steps could be combined or further subdivided.   I respect and thank you for your efforts. Respectfully, I don't think that your current approach (which is the standard Wikipedia one, so this is not a critique) is going to get you anywhere (which is also standard for Wikipedia) and is just wearing people out. My suggestion is to develop a specific idea which 2-3 people will get behind as proponents and then float and support that idea. North8000 (talk) 20:52, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes, ideally a few people could come up with a specific proposal, but I didn't see that happening. The RfC is ironic -- on the one hand people are saying there's no problem so there's no need for a change, and yet there's clearly a disagreement about the interpretation of the policy which suggests that there is a need for a change. Kolya Butternut (talk) 21:04, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
@Kolya Butternut: I think that the "no problem" people are essentially saying that the fuzzy Wikipedia system mostly makes it work. BTW my idea was a suggestion for you if you chose to pursue this further. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:53, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 23:15, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 23:27, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Your advice on an AfC submission

Hi. Please take a look at Draft:Terje G. Simonsen. It is a properly stated WP:COI contribution about a Norwegian non-fiction author. The article is a translation of a Norwegian Wikipedia article with a bit more sources. The author is a historian and writes about the history of paranormal. Considering your great experience of editing Wikipedia and also the fact that you contributed to Jeffrey Mishlove, I guess that you have a balanced view on the subject and can give me a good and professional advice. Please tell how this article could/should be edited or changed in order to improve the chances of passing an AfC review. Thanks! Peter. --Bbarmadillo (talk) 17:18, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bbarmadillo: Happy to. It looks like it was already accepted both for afc and npp. It looks like an excellent job on the article based on the available sources. If you wanted to take it to the "next level" regarding article quality and being doublysafe on wp:notability I search for 1-2 more sources that wrote about him and incorporate that material into the article. Nice work! North8000 (talk) 02:19, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! --Bbarmadillo (talk) 06:59, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:15, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 04:54, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Christmas tree in field.jpg Merry Christmas North8000

Hi North8000, I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas
and a very happy and prosperous New Year,
Thanks for all your contributions to Wikipedia this past year, like this tree, you are a light shining in the darkness.
Onel5969 TT me 12:07, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Onel5969: Thanks for the Christmas wishes, I wish you a great 2021! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

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Precious anniversary

Precious
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Eight years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:02, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Closing edit requests

Please be sure to close edit requests that you grant. Gentle reminder to use the |answered=yes parameter in the request template. That removes the request from the Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests category. Thank you very much for your help with edit requests! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 20:11, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 20:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:14, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

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done. North8000 (talk) 14:31, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:39, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Happy Valentines! Some sweet strawberries for you!

Erdbeerteller01.jpg You get the Dependability Award! Thank you for being the kind of editor that other editors like me have come to rely on, knowing they can depend on you for help and guidance! Huggums537 (talk) 22:50, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

@Huggums537: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 02:12, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

notability guideline issue about Sadat Hossain Article

I wrote a article named Sadat Hossain. Then there is two discussion (1st Discussion and 2nd Discussion).The result of both discussion is keep. But for the 3rd time it is flagged as not notable. But as per WP:CREATIVE and WP:AUTHOR rules it meets the criteria. The references are from prominent Bangladeshi & Indian bengali and english newspapers. I want to permanently dissolve this issue. Jubair Sayeed Linas (talk) 20:25, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

@Jubair Sayeed Linas: Happy to take a peek. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:10, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
@Jubair Sayeed Linas: Long story short, you have a pretty strong case for this article, doubly so from a person who took it to AFD before. But before I try to help I'd like to know whether it is a strong vs. doubly strong case. If it has like 2 GNG-suitable sources it would be doubly strong. I think that it would take me hours (which I frankly don't have) to read and understand the sources. I took a look and immediately ran into things that I would need to figure out such as sources centric on names other than Sadat Hossain. Could you help out by picking and pointing out to me the top 2 or three sources regarding GNG. So that would be published sources that cover him in depth. Sincerely,, North8000 (talk) 22:51, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
@North8000: As you can see the reference link leading and prominent english newspaper like The Daily Star (Bangladesh), The Daily Observer (Bangladesh), Dhaka Tribune and bengali newspaper Prothom Alo, Bangladesh Pratidin, Manab Zamin, online portal Banglanews24.com, Bangla Tribune, NTV (Bangladeshi TV channel) and Indian Ei Samay Sangbadpatra, Kolkata TV has stories about him. You can search through the bengali by সাদাত হোসাইন which is the bengali form of Sadat Hossain. I recommend you to look up ref 1, ref 2, ref 3, ref 4ref 5 You can also find him on [Worldcat]. Jubair Sayeed Linas (talk) 23:38, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello @Jubair Sayeed Linas:. That's about 2 hours of work and would need to wait until I have that much time to spare. My previous request which was: "Could you help out by picking and pointing out to me the top 2 or three sources regarding GNG. So that would be published sources that cover him in depth." was to reduce the amount of time required and I'd work on the situation right away. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

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February 2020

Information icon Hello, I'm Dlthewave. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, PragerU, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. (Regarding this edit, which restored the unsourced text "historical narrative.) –dlthewave 22:32, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

dlthewave, why would you post something like that? It's a very condescending thing to say to an editor who has been around Wikipedia for almost a decade more than you have and who restoring the status quo text given we are at a noconsensus state in the talk page discussion. Springee (talk) 22:53, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
@Dlthewave: You have it backwards. I removed unsourced new material. Your post here even mis-represents the reason given for the reversion of my revert, they asserted that it was because there was no consensus to remove the unsourced un-consensused new material! North8000 (talk) 23:19, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, I understand that you believe the new material to be unsourced and lacking consensus. I explained why I disagree with that on the talk page. However, you are responsible for your own edit which added the words "historical narrative". Where is the source that supports that? WP:ONUS is on editors who add or restore unsourced content. –dlthewave 23:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
"Narrative" merely means that such a statement or assertion by somebody exists, which it clearly does, and such is already sourced. and that is the stable version. You are defending the substitution of a much farther reaching version of that statement which was inserted on February 26th. And there is no "I believe" regarding no consensus, such obviously did not occur. If you still wish to persist with the "I believe" insinuation, please point to where that consensus occurred. North8000 (talk) 01:40, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
@Dlthewave: I took issue in several ways with the approach that you you took above and responded accordingly. That said, I'm ready to just move on and wish you the best and thank you for your Wikipedia work. At the article my desire is to try to be helpful and then not worry about what the final result is. Combine that with I think progress being made there and I'm not overly concerned about what happens next.North8000 (talk) 04:59, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

McKinsey & Company

Hi @North8000: those entries are entirely unsuitable for the lede. They are completely WP:NPOV. I had a chat with the editor on it already. scope_creepTalk 15:57, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi @North8000: You could perhaps do with getting this stuff archived. It is quite hard to write this entry. scope_creepTalk 15:59, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello @Scope creep: My edit summary pretty much gave my take on it....the one revert deleted about 20 edits which looks like they contained some good info and sourcing and I felt the 20 edits should get a closer look rather than mass reverted. Maybe add to that some concern that concern about possible coi might have made folks go a bit overboard there. (yes, concern about concern :-)) That closer/ targeted look is still my recommendation but I just wanted to try to help a bit and beyond that am not really concerned about the outcome. Thanks for your efforts and work. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:15, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 11:59, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Help w Soles4Souls page

Hi North8000. I wanted to see if you had a minute to look at Talk:Soles4Souls under “Requested changes“ or, if not, if you knew of any editors interested in pages about non-profits I could reach out to. Jamiemellis (talk) 16:01, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Sure, I'd be happy to.North8000 (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 28 March 2021

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 13:58, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:30, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: April 2021

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WikiProject Scouting | April 2021


Things to watch for:


Other ways to participate:

--evrik (talk) 17:39, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

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done. North8000 (talk) 21:03, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 18:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 April 2021

Scouting WikiProject

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Thank you for your dedication to Scouting! --evrik (talk) 20:24, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


Thanks! North8000 (talk) 20:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: May 2021

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WikiProject Scouting | May 2021


Notes for May:

  • Congratulations to our Barnstar awardees!
  • Interested in coordinating a zoom meeting? Please let us know.


Other ways to participate:

--evrik (talk) 20:45, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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done North8000 (talk) 17:20, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Greetings!

Please share your views on Talk:Elizabeth II#Head of the Commonwealth, as you did at the talk page of George VI. Thank you! Peter Ormond (talk) 00:09, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

@Peter Ormond:Thanks for the invite. Done. North8000 (talk) 17:25, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 17:31, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Request for peer review help

Hi North8000. I hope you are doing well and staying safe during these times! Apologize to bother and posting a random request. I have just started to work on a stub (Fontainea Venosa)and had added some sections. Knowing your expertise, I would love if you can help me to review and left a comment on what I can do to improve my edits. I hope that this is okay, but no pressure if you are busy. That is completely fine and understandable :) Hope to hear from you soon. The article is Fontainea Venosa

Thank you so much :) Sparklingkull (talk) 09:37, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@Sparklingkull: Sure, I'd be happy to. North8000 (talk) 12:17, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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done North8000 (talk) 14:26, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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done North8000 (talk) 23:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 15:32, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 15:31, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:37, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 11:23, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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done North8000 (talk) 12:02, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 June 2021

From Gerda Arendt

Daisy, Ehrenbach.jpg

... for what you said on User talk:SlimVirgin - missing pictured on my talk, with music full of hope and reformation --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:23, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 21:23, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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GAN Backlog Drive - July 2021

Good article nominations | July 2021 Backlog Drive
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July 2021 Backlog Drive:
  • This Thursday, July 1, a one-month backlog drive for good article nominations will begin.
  • Barnstars will be awarded based on the number, length, and age, of articles reviewed.
  • Interested in taking part? You can sign up here.
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You're receiving this message because you have conducted 10+ good article reviews or participated in the March backlog drive.

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--Usernameunique

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

St. Joseph's Indian School

I tried to edit this article to establish a factual version and timeline cited and based on sources, and to clean up the sources, because sometimes the same article was referred to 3 times as if different ones. Yes, I should have asked permission first but got started early this morning. Elizium said I used incorrect formatting, and reverted edits where I had added Fr. to Hogebach. (I thought that and Rev. were pretty common for Catholic and Protestant clergy, respectively.) Some factual material wasn't included at all, such as the name of the college at Chamberlain or the number of students when St. Joseph's school started. If we could have a version that is more factual and cleaned up, it might make the Talk page more productive.Parkwells (talk) 16:46, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Parkwells: Sorry I didn't see this sooner because you put it my user page instead of my talk page. I've subsequently said there that you are a rock-star neutral expert editor and thanked you for your work there.North8000 (talk) 17:06, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, North8000 - must have been too annoyed at the time, so have moved it to its correct place. Thanks for all your work on the article, too.Parkwells (talk) 17:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
@North8000 and Parkwells:, I think you both have done good things with the article. It continues to be expanded with relevant material. I honestly appreciate you both. --ARoseWolf 19:13, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks!North8000 (talk) 20:34, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: July 2021

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WikiProject Scouting | July 2021


Things to watch for:


Other ways to participate:

--evrik (talk) 17:32, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Page move without adequate notice for discussion

See my ping at Talk:History of American Indian schools#Scope of this article and potential American Indian school articles, where I have strongly suggested that you self-revert and apply the discussion template for suggested page moves. A note on talk, with a header that does not mention a potential page move, and then moving it yourself when no one has responded to you after four days (two of them over a weekend) is not appropriate. Follow Wikipedia policy for page moves. I have linked the policy and template at talk. Don't make others have to clean this up. - CorbieVreccan 21:23, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

You are implying policies that don't exist. What you linked is instructions for people who want to have somebody move pages for them, and not only that even that is in the multiple page moves section.Finally, even if it WAS applicable, it describes what I already did. As I said there, lets let editors weigh in and go with whatever is decided. North8000 (talk) 00:09, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Others have concurred that it was entirely proper. But again, let's just decide how it should end up and do that. North8000 (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done.North8000 (talk) 02:42, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:33, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 23:39, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:42, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:56, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for helping with the RFC I did try to clarify it more.Thelostone41 (talk) 13:34, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

@Thelostone41: My pleasure. North8000 (talk) 17:19, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 July 2021

mail from SB

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Hello, North8000. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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Smallbones(smalltalk) 11:53, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 13:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:36, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:45, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:54, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 15:12, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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File source problem with File:Justine Kerfoot 1940.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Justine Kerfoot 1940.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the page from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of the website's terms of use of its content. If the original copyright holder is a party unaffiliated with the website, that author should also be credited. Please add this information by editing the image description page.

If the necessary information is not added within the next seven days, the image will be deleted. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

Please refer to the image use policy to learn what images you can or cannot upload on Wikipedia. Please also check any other files you have uploaded to make sure they are correctly tagged. Here is a list of your uploads. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:09, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

The source of the image is the current owner, Bruce Kerfoot who has granted the required license. He obtained ownership by inheriting it from the original owner, his mother, Justine Kerfoot.North8000 (talk) 12:25, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

WP:ROPE

I have drafted an alternative version of this essay at User:Cullen328/sandbox/One last chance and invite your input. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 23:01, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for the invitation. North8000 (talk) 23:46, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 August 2021

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 19:33, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment

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Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment

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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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New Page Patrol newsletter September 2021

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New Page Review queue September 2021

Hello North8000,

Please join this discussion - there is increase in the abuse of Wikipedia and its processes by POV pushers, Paid Editors, and by holders of various user rights including Autopatrolled. Even our review systems themselves at AfC and NPR have been infiltrated. The good news is that detection is improving, but the downside is that it creates the need for a huge clean up - which of course adds to backlogs.

Copyright violations are also a serious issue. Most non-regular contributors do not understand why, and most of our Reviewers are not experts on copyright law - and can't be expected to be, but there is excellent, easy-to-follow advice on COPYVIO detection here.

At the time of the last newsletter (#25, December 2020) the backlog was only just over 2,000 articles. New Page Review is an official system. It's the only firewall against the inclusion of new, improper pages.

There are currently 706 New Page Reviewers plus a further 1,080 admins, but as much as nearly 90% of the patrolling is still being done by around only the 20 or so most regular patrollers.

If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process or its software.

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Various awards are due to be allocated by the end of the year and barnstars are overdue. If you would like to manage this, please let us know. Indeed, if you are interested in coordinating NPR, it does not involve much time and the tasks are described here.


To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here. Sent to 827 users. 04:32, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 11:53, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk)

Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment

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The Signpost: 26 September 2021

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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addition of a neuromorphic computing section to the article Artificial intelligence

@North8000

about the article Artificial intelligence :

I'd like to ask for consensus to add a section on specialized AI hardware.

the rationale for this is that talking about a type of software without the corresponding hardware makes the subject incomplete.

there are already Wikipedia articles on this subject which I will list below.

Neuromorphic engineering

Event camera

JAIC

Physical neural network

Memristor RJJ4y7 (talk) 14:23, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

@RJJ4y7: Thanks for the heads up. I've been gone but will be happy to go to discuss at the article page. North8000 (talk) 11:46, 13 October

2021 (UTC)

already started a section RJJ4y7 (talk) 15:19, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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You have been nominated

 You are invited to join the discussion at meta:Movement Charter/Affiliates by Region/North America. You have been nominated by User:RightCowLeftCoast, with meta:San Diego Wikimedians User Group, to be a region selector for North America (Canada, and the United States) for the Movement Charter selector committee. If you accept your nomination, please indicate it on the page. If you do not accept your nomination, please remove yourself from the list of potential selectors. Thanks in advance for your time regarding this nomination, and thanks for everything you have done so far on a Wikimedia project. RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 22:20, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

@RightCowLeftCoast: Thanks for the nomination. I don't fully understand this yet (including how to properly accept) but am happy to make my best effort.North8000 (talk) 11:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
@North8000: Thanks for accepting the nomination. Within the next day the Wikimedia Foundation affiliates in Canada, and the United States, will vote on those nominees who have accepted their nominations or who self nominated. The majority vote getter will then be selected as the North American Region selector on the affiliates selection committee, who will then decide among themselves who shall be the Wikimedia Foundation affiliates Drafting Committee members.--RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 15:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
@North8000: Thanks for volunteering your time! Here's a bit more context on the task you were nominated for -- this is a specific task to happen over the next 2 weeks to work with the other selectors who are chosen by the other regions of the world (as described here: meta:Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_Process#Selection_process to choose the 6-13 candidates you think are the best for the role of drafting the meta:Movement Charter. Here's the list of candidates you would choose from -- there are 70 and they are international, from all parts of the movement, so it will be a fair bit of review; here's some of the matrices developed so far. Each region gets to nominate a selector, so this is North America's process. The process of selecting candidates needs to wrap up by the beginning of November (the posted date is October 24 with announcement to happen by Oct 31), to coincide with the community vote on the candidates that will also be happening. So the task will be: read through the 70 candidates, and work with your 8 counterparts to decide who you think should take on the drafting/editing/conceptualization process that will result in the movement charter draft. This is complicated, let me know if you have questions! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 17:49, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
It would be good to learn your views, North8000. Can't tell if you've been following the Movement Charter discussion. For logistical reasons I have to vote soon at least tentatively. I will try to tune in to tonight's North America meeting and hear the discussion. -- econterms (talk) 19:33, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
Just a quick note that the affiliates have voted in another candidate but thanks again for being willing to volunteer! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 15:33, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Folk Music

Hello there, and thanks for the thanks (what a pun.) Anyways, since you are the main editor of the page as far as I can see, I listed a concern on the talk page. Would you be willing to comment, since nobody else is active? Cheers,-- • Apollo468•  22:47, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Cool. Happy to comment. North8000 (talk) 01:17, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:09, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:29, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Help with Oaktree Capital Management

Hello North8000. I posted an edit request at Talk:Oaktree Capital Management a few days ago, and was rejected without discussion. Of course I am slightly biased due to a COI, but there appears to have been some oversight and I'd love to get a second opinion. A quick look at the other editor's contributions makes it clear that I will likely need a mediator, and you seem to be someone who may be willing to help. If you have a moment to check it out, I would really appreciate it. Thanks! LeiaVOaktree (talk) 19:21, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@LeiaVOaktree:Happy to take a look. North8000 (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: October 2021

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WikiProject Scouting | October 2021

It is with sadness that we note the passing of Jim Howes. Throughout his life, Jim worked to make the world a better place. WikiProject Scouting now has no administrators listed as willing to help the WikiProject. If you are an administrator and are willing to help, please let us know here.

Things to watch for:


Other ways to participate:

--evrik (talk) 15:12, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 12:53, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

November 2021 backlog drive

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:32, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk)

The Signpost: 31 October 2021

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done North8000 (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:42, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:40, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:46, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 13:13, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 14:20, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

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Happy belated Thanksgiving!

The First Thanksgiving Jean Louis Gerome Ferris.png Happy belated Thanksgiving!
Better late than never... Happy holidays! Huggums537 (talk) 09:36, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
@Huggums537: Thanks! Have a great holidays! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

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WP:RSP

You seem to be a bit confused about reliable sources, since you described content supported by The New York Times and The Washington Post as "fake news". I would suggest looking over WP:RSP to gain a better understanding of how these sources are treated on Wikipedia, since this might differ from your personal beliefs about them. –dlthewave 21:49, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

@Dlthewave: What a complete insulting mis-statement or misunderstanding of what I said. If it's just latter and , please let me know and I'll be happy to discuss. North8000 (talk) 22:33, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
My apologies for any offense or misunderstanding. What exactly did you mean by "giving legs to fake news that 'assault weapon' is some specific type of weapon"? I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that we shouldn't use the term/concept in a way that reliable sources do. I'd really like to understand where you're coming from so that we can try to reach consensus. –dlthewave 23:15, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
There are also RS's which quote originators which said that the term is invented to confuse (with military firearms) for political purposes, not to identify any type of firearm. My main goal is to avoid promulgating something that is objectively a falsehood, including statements that implicitly (falsely) state that it has a consistent meaning as a type of firearm. There are ways to increase coverage of the debates in this general area without propagating terminology falsehoods. They are vulnerable to attack by wikilawyering and so it would take a true joint effort by all concerned. In vague shorthand, it would be something like "persons and organizations are opposed to xxxxxxxxx style firearms (e.g. an AR-15) being available to the general public for the following reasons: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and use the term "assault weapons" to refer to those types of firearms.North8000 (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining. Could you point me to one of the sources that quotes the originators? I'd love to learn. –dlthewave 23:58, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Here's some (quoted) content:
Sugarmann, who happens to be a native of Newtown, argued that the American public's inability to differentiate between automatic and semiautomatic weapons made it easier to get anti-gun legislation passed.
"The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons," Sugarmann wrote.
Gun rights advocates agree that the term "assault weapons" has furthered the idea that semiautomatic weapons are the same as fully automatic assault rifles, which they contend are much more dangerous.
The gun rights lobby also argues that 1) the word "assault" connotes offense and illegality, while the vast majority of such guns are used in a lawful manner and for defense and 2) so-called assault weapons differ from other guns solely because of cosmetic changes like a pistol grip or a threaded barrel for a silencer -- not in the way they actually fire bullets."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/01/17/is-it-fair-to-call-them-assault-weapons/
North8000 (talk) 00:15, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 November 2021

I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed

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Thank you for creating Iby.

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North8000 (talk) 19:20, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposed new draft for the Jon Baker page

About 2 months ago I shared a proposed draft to rework the Jon Baker page to remove promotionalism (addressing the advert tags) and make the page more up-to-date. I haven’t been able to find any editors willing to review the draft for consideration and was hoping you might be willing to take a look. Kindest. Daizypeach (talk) 13:24, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Daizypeach: Sure, I'd be happy to. North8000 (talk) 14:31, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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done North8000 (talk) 15:32, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Seeking neutral tone suggestions for RfC

Hello North8000, Thank you for your comments on the Jack Posobiec RfC. I was wondering if you had any suggestions on how to re-word the RfC into a neutral concise tone regarding the lead paragraph? MaximusEditor (talk) 21:31, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

@MaximusEditor: Happy to go and see if I can help. North8000 (talk) 21:35, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Although this isn’t my main focus, I do think that RS’ing neutral labels could make it so the article reads as more NPOV. Maybe, put that after the current lede descriptions. (talk) 08:22, 7 December 2021 (UTC) (by Tylerf2022)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:48, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Review of Social fabric

This article was mostly a copy/paste/duplication of Social network, to which it has redirected. I reverted to the redirect. MB 14:57, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@MB: Thanks. I didn't realize that. North8000 (talk) 18:19, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested updates

Hi North8000. My name is Daniel and I work for Sitel. A couple weeks ago I requested adding an acquisition and some updated infobox data to the Sitel page, but neither of the editors I pinged responded. I was wondering if you would be willing to take a look and consider making the edits if they are appropriate? DanSlavov (talk) 15:51, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Sure, I'd be happy to give it a look. North8000 (talk) 18:21, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:27, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Featured Article Save Award

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On behalf of the FAR coordinators, thank you, North8000! Your work on Great Lakes Storm of 1913 has allowed the article to retain its featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. You may display this FA star upon your userpage. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:58, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: I'm honored and thanks! It was a pleasure working with everybody there! North8000 (talk) 14:12, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Joyous Season

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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The Signpost: 28 December 2021

Intellectual exchange

In retrospect, if I thought your point to be rather strange, I only just realized that you are somewhat correct, I reviewed some articles today and it occurred to me that I had just marked 3 articles as reviewed even though the references didn’t necessarily meet what would we consider as “reliable” as documented in WP:RS, but since they met the relevant SNG, it was a slam dunk review, after my reviews, my mind went straight to what you said. I believe the dynamics in “sourcing” or how sources work, or ought to work with SNG's are a discussion for another day. Celestina007 (talk) 22:59, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007: Thanks for the post. For me that particular discussion was on a simpler aspect of wp:notability. The top level guideline says that meeting the particular criteria is sufficient. At a more complex level, IMO the way that wp:notability actually works is a complex ecosystem not fully described in the guidelines. I wrote an essay which I think actually describes that, it is Wikipedia:How Wikipedia notability works. Finally there is the "what should it be? question. IMO the system documented at Wikipedia:How Wikipedia notability works mostly works but has a few problems, the biggest being:
  1. Since much of it is complex and undocumented, it is confusing. Amongst other issues is that few understand it and it is unquotable when resolving specific problems
  2. The SNG set the bar too low for sports figures (basically it's "did it for a living for at least one day") which makes Wikipedia flooded and imbalanced with those articles which is turn creats more secondary problems.
  3. For highly encyclopedic topics which don't have their own SNG, it makes them too tough to get in. Actually (long story short) this actually falls under #1.
Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
You are apt, I read the essay and it made a whole lot of sense to me and even helped me to understand certain nuances I have struggled with in the past. Furthermore, I want to point to your #2 point above, and say I agree with you a 100%. Celestina007 (talk) 22:21, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

GAN Backlog Drive – January 2022

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Done North8000 (talk) 04:47, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Enabling factors

Thanks for that great insight[4], I've renamed the section to Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes#Enabling_factors, the former section title "Proposed causes" seems to have generated much argumentation in the past, so this may be a step in the right direction. Probably the section lead sentence needs to be updated to reflect that new section title. --Nug (talk) 19:12, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Nug: Thanks, I'm flattered. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC) North8000 (talk) 15:45, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 23:06, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 22:33, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:58, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Involvement in the Drn

Hi North8000, sorry for the trouble, I might sound petulant, I know, however now I need to know in what form you intend to be called to participate in the Drn on Italian parties. Soon I intend to filea request to the Drn, so I need to indicate the users directly involved. I don't know if you prefer to be notified by ping within the discussion, but to facilitate the procedure it would be more practical to indicate you as an involved user (which is not a bad thing). Obviously I will respect your every decision :) --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 09:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Scia Della Cometa: Thanks for the message and it's no trouble. Happy to help there but that is my only care and capacity and so I don't want to be listed as involved. North8000 (talk) 18:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Ok, then I will not indicate you as an involved user, I trust in your participation. --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 19:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Yes, happy to help. North8000 (talk) 21:21, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
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Nine years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:53, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 14:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

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Feedback: Thanks

Thanks a lot for heeding my request. I just have no words. I'll always be here to return the favor :). Derivator2017 (talk) 20:40, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Happy to help. I wouldn't call it a favor, other than helping a new editor learn Wikipedia. Now you need to do what I suggested! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:42, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Can you please really tell what's the issue with the page? It's similar to the one which you reviewed (i.e., Al Alia International Indian School). And yes kindly elaborate what you suggested because I have provided over 60 references and sources to make the page eligible for GNG. Derivator2017 (talk) 20:47, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

What counts is articles by independent sources where the school is the subject of the article. I found one such reference in the article that I approved ( https://www.arabnews.com/node/227466). To be on firm ground, it needed two, but I gave you / it the benefit of the doubt. I found zero such references in the article which is at AFD (despite it having more references) So go find some articles by independent sources where the school is the subject of the article/coverage. North8000 (talk) 21:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
I see. I'm pretty sure I might be able to get one. Well, if you don't mind, it'd be really great help if you could ping some of the Wikipedians in the discussion and at least ask them to vote keep or anything near to it. In the meantime, I'll try to find the sources you've asked me for. Because in my view saving the article from being thrown in trash bin is the first thing I am supposed to do right now. Derivator2017 (talk) 21:21, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
(by talk reader) @Derivator2017: Your request for North8000 to "ping some of the Wikipedians in the discussion and at least ask them to vote keep or anything near to it" violates WP:CANVASS. Wikipedia is not a platform for you to exploit. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
Got it Derivator2017 (talk) 21:28, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
I think three articles, one from Arab News (https://www.arabnews.com/yara-school-backs-diabetes-initiative), the other from Saudi Gazette (http://saudigazette.com.sa/article/22836/Yara-celebrates-Childrens-Day-and-spreads-awareness-about-diabetes) and the last one from Press Reader (https://www.pressreader.com/saudi-arabia/arab-news/20120507/281994669507834) are completely dedicated to the school. Derivator2017 (talk) 21:39, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
I uploaded the entire screenshot of an Arab News article that was discussing international schools in Saudi Arabia. The only reason an entire column was dedicated to the school because it was among the top ranking schools Derivator2017 (talk) 21:42, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Finding those three references was good. You should do two things with them:

  • Incorporate material from the reference in the article, and add the references for that material
  • Note the references in the discussion page at the AFD page.

Putting an image of the newspaper was a bad idea. I will be forced to delete that and will discuss in the edit summary. North8000 (talk) 22:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

But be sure to use that newspaper article as a reference and also to discuss/ note it at AFD.North8000 (talk) 22:40, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

@North8000: Alright, I did as you said. Kindly have a look at it in the AFD page. And, just letting you know that those references were already incorporated in the article, maybe you and the others weren't able to spot it due to the inducing amount of material included in the reference list. Derivator2017 (talk) 09:19, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't notice those. North8000 (talk) 13:45, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

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