User talk:Premeditated Chaos

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♠ New messages to the bottom please. I will reply here without pinging unless asked otherwise.
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Deletion case, need help


My last upload has considered by some of your auto system or member, then I tried to add more points to get into your "Orphan" question. After that this deletion has been shown by you. Below I again send my work, and guide me How is going wrong, please, your suggestion told to follow the footnotes, Hope it is following, something could be wrong, So my long time procedure does not get into the right direction, Need your help.

I also saw your nominated one person, that guide a little different than footnotes, Below my works change part please show me by a note, please. Many people tried to guide me in your team but I can't get them at all,

Ali Liakat (আলী লিয়াকত) (born 29 November 1963) is a Bangladeshi painter who was born in Gopalganj, Bangladesh. He shifted to Tokyo, Japan. He tries to express his feelings through outstanding compositions and colors.[1]

After this, I tried to solve the "Orphan" case, by below notes

Ali Liakat now lives and works in Tokyo,JapanAn awarded artist. His painting has published in the page no – 102, 2017 Ali LIakat "International Contemporary Master Vol ." USA 11 [2]


  1. ^ "Ali Liakat's show at Tokyo Metropolitan Art Museum". The Daily Observer. 2021-08-28. Retrieved 2021-08-29.
  2. ^ International Contemporary Masters 11 (2017). Ali Liakat, Book. Usa: World Wide Art Books. p. 102. ISBN 978-84-9703-215-5.

That's allMusic in color (talk) 11:23, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Yeah the article was deleted because there isn't enough significant independent coverage to indicate that he meets WP:NARTIST or WP:GNG, our notability guidelines. Also because you appear to have an obvious conflict of interest - are you being paid or otherwise compensated in any way to try to create this article about Mr. Liakat? ♠PMC(talk) 20:30, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I would like to request help, please not delete and guide me how I can follow you. Thanks Music in color (talk) 06:05, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Did you read the comment I posted to you above on Sept 5? ♠PMC(talk) 14:41, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Draft:All is Revealed

Hello, PMC,

FYI: This editor in Elk River, Minnesota, has been the source of a lot of hoax articles. They seem to switch IP addresses with every edit so I don't know if they can be blocked. Liz Read! Talk! 02:08, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Liz: perhaps a rangeblock of 2600:6C46:4100:7FF::/64? Looks like NinjaRobotPirate has previously blocked them, but it expired at the start of August. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:13, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, I range blocked it again. Users on Spectrum are usually pretty easy to block. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:24, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
Thanks everyone. Liz, I didn't realize it was an ongoing issue/LTA, and NRP, rangeblocks scare me (I'm afraid of accidentally blocking a whole country or something) so I appreciate you taking care of the block :) ♠PMC(talk) 05:29, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you

I want to express my belated appreciation for your trust and support in my July RfA. My first few months have been slow and uneventful but after some distractions I expect to be more a part. If I can be helpful or if you see me get out of line, I welcome you to approach me directly. Thanks again. BusterD (talk) 17:20, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Started a draft!

Hey PMC! I decided that I would start a draft (currently at Draft:Splatoon 3) and would like your help in putting what I"m finding in sources into readable prose without plagiarizing the sources. ― Blaze The WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 01:01, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

It's a bit difficult as at the moment there's not much detail in any of the sources, but usually I try to summarize what the source is saying without including any of the journalistic color or in-universe details. For example, the Kotaku source frames the trailer as "research footage" and talks about weapons and stuff. Most of that isn't really pertinent for an article, but you might include something like "Splatoon 3 will introduce mammalian characters in its single-player story mode." Hope that helps. ♠PMC(talk) 03:45, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Alright. Thanks! Also the Nintendo Direct itself framed the trailer as research footage so you can't really blame Kotaku there. Blaze The WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 13:10, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Oh yeah, not knocking Kotaku for it - they're clearly rolling with the bit for fun :) ♠PMC(talk) 13:25, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Yep. I managed to find 2 more sources that did not exist last night when I started the draft. I figured more sources would be popping up a day or two after the Direct came out. I actually wouldn't have started the draft if someone hadn't said that Splatoon 3 could probably be split into its own article at this point. ― Blaze The WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 13:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

New message from RandomCanadian

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Premeditated Chaos. You have new messages at RandomCanadian's talk page.
Message added 02:41, 25 September 2021 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Pings can be fickle, so just in case RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 02:41, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Promotion of Islands: Non-Places

Congratulations, Premeditated Chaos! The article you nominated, Islands: Non-Places, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Gog the Mild (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:06, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
Well that was fast. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 01:58, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
Short video game articles are apparently easy as hell to get through FAC - Islanders was similarly pretty chill. Unfortunately, this means it's time for another bruiser... ♠PMC(talk) 02:26, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Four Award

Four Award.svg Four Award
Congratulations! You have been awarded the Four Award for your work from beginning to end on Islands: Non-Places. — Bilorv (talk) 17:38, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Draft:DZMD and Draft:DZMD-FM (Bataan)

Hi, since you deleted DZMD-FM (Bataan) because of the result at its AfD, can you delete Draft:DZMD and Draft:DZMD-FM (Bataan) because these two were duplicated from DZMD-FM (Bataan)? Thank You! SeanJ 2007 (talk) 03:43, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Drafts don't automatically get deleted if the corresponding mainspace article gets deleted. There's a lower threshold for drafts. If they get ignored, in 6 months they will be {{G13}}'d, or if they get submitted tendentiously, they can be taken to MfD. ♠PMC(talk) 03:57, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Deletion review for Andrew Lauderdale

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Andrew Lauderdale. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:53, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Audience immersion

Updated DYK query.svg

On 10 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Audience immersion, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the use of audience immersion in video games has been studied as a strategy for promoting behavior change for the implementation of public health objectives? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Audience immersion. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Audience immersion), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elazar IX (Samaritan High Priests)

I think the deletion reason given there never really applied to 2 of the other articles listed there in SiliconProphet's comment--and I think it also doesn't apply to Amram VIII and Shalma III---for these 4 the material in the Comments section for them is extensive enough for an article. (and Elazar IX probably also because of the 2 photos, tho there are in the main article they'll never be noticed there & belong more logically in a separate article--I apologize for doing that before I asked you -- it had been reconstructed and G4d & I didn't see the photos myself & I thought it was completely new material-) . As I see it, this was a case where the articles should have been listed and considered separately. I would like to restore all the articles where there is in fact enough information for a full paragraph, not just a few words -- of course I will go thru deletion review if you really want, but I think you and I generally agree on things like this. (for all the others, I will make the redirects when I have the time because I think someone might logically look for the name) DGG ( talk ) 07:48, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I think you and I generally agree on things like this - I'm sorry, but I don't think we do. I strongly believe all topics need to meet GNG, and none of those articles were shown to pass GNG with substantive coverage. The article you restored, Yaacob I ben Aaharon ben Shalma, cites a Tripod page as a source - that's inexcusable in 2021. Another one, Amram VIII ben Shalma (which remains deleted) cites a source that doesn't even mention Amram by name. At best, these should be redirects to something like List of Samaritan high priests until it has actually been demonstrated that there is significant coverage in reliable sources. I fully intend to take Yaacob I ben Aaharon ben Shalma back to AfD if adequate sourcing is not located. ♠PMC(talk) 00:26, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
I seem to notice our agreements more than our disagreements. People working from different viewpoints can still agree on individual instances. But I think you are right on this one, and I'm going to redirect it, as you suggested would be possible on the close. I remain unsure of the others, but i spent altogether too much time reading on the subject yesterday, and I'm going to leave the others alone at least for now. DGG ( talk ) 04:58, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
I think generally we agree when it comes to deleting corporate spam and similar things. I'm just a hardliner about sourcing in general, even for historical things, and in this case I don't think there's enough to justify the numerous stubs. ♠PMC(talk) 23:36, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Merging 1963 Bilaspur by-election to 1962 Madhya Pradesh Legislative Assembly election

I think this is the wrong place to merge it. It should have been merged to Bilaspur (Lok Sabha constituency) and/or to 1962 Indian general election. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 03:05, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, you're entirely right, good catch. I'll fix it. ♠PMC(talk) 05:30, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Inuit clothing scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 7 November 2021. Please check that the article needs no amendments. Feel free to comment on the draft blurb at TFA. I suggest that you watchlist Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors from the day before this appears on Main Page. Thanks and congratulations on your work. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC) Inuit clothing

Thank you today for the article, introduced: "Inuit skin clothing is a tremendously interesting topic that I wrote a whole article about out of spite because we didn't have one and I wanted to merge an orphaned stub to it. The more I said about it, the more I learned there was to say about it, and my research resulted in not only the comprehensive primary article, but two child articles as well (history of Inuit clothing and research on Inuit clothing). It's a shame it took us until 2020 to have an article on the topic, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't happy I got to be the one to do it. Throughout their entire history, the Inuit have been master survivors, and their skin clothing system is a living testament to that: research has found that the traditional clothing of the Inuit is warmer and more comfortable than modern military and expedition gear. In addition to being effective, Inuit clothing is an expression of identity, artistic technique, spirituality, and style. While full outfits of traditional skin clothing are no longer worn all the time, it would be a mistake to pin Inuit clothing to the past – the Inuit continue to integrate the patterns and styles of their traditional clothing with their modern lives today."! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:47, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

It was great to see it on the Main Page; congrats! {{u|Sdkb}}talk 16:41, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks guys, appreciate it! ♠PMC(talk) 16:42, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Abdulai Abukari

Hey, PMC,

You have had such success with PRODding articles, I thought I'd ask you what you think about this one. It came to my attention because it was moved to Draft space and back and there are claims of notability so I don't think speedy deletion is appropriate. Does it get your stamp of PROD approval? I ask because I have had so-so results with PRODding articles, many that I tag have had their tags removed within the week of waiting. Liz Read! Talk! 02:12, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

The trick is only PROD'ing things that are 15-year-old orphans with long-departed creators so there's no one around to object ;) In all seriousness, I can tell you that those sources suck thoroughly. 1 is literally a photo caption, 2 doesn't mention him at all, and 3 is the homepage of a Ghanaian news site and not even a specific article. I didn't find anything significant on a quick search, although yadda yadda white person from Canada without access to non-English or paywalled African sources. Okay. Second question, as chieftain of Tibung does he have an NPOL claim? IMO not even slightly, as Tibung is a village or at best a small town. I'd call that equivalent to being the mayor of a little town in Idaho, which doesn't ding NPOL. (Like, the redlinks call him the "king" of Tibung, but that's a meaningless assertion without any verification that there is in fact a, uh, kingdom). So that's a solid PROD argument generally, but the article creator is currently active, so it would likely get de-PROD'd quickly.
Uh...the article history is a bit weird. After the article got moved to draft yesterday, the draftifier (Eevee) tagged the resulting redirect as R2. The creator then immediately overwrote the R2-tagged redirect with more article content, creating a split history between the draft and the mainspace version. Then someone else came along and redirected the draft to the mainspace article. Oh my god. This is so annoying.
I've gone ahead and reversed all that because I'm cranky. I've watchlisted both for a week and I'll keep an eye out for further shenanigans. If they keep returning it to main though, you'd be well within your rights to AfD it with the rationale I laid out. ♠PMC(talk) 08:56, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Yes, I was PROD'ding old technology articles that I think some editors still had a soft spot for. Some get pretty outraged when you tell them that a computer user group from 20+ years ago isn't really notable. Liz Read! Talk! 21:04, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Lana Rhoades

I disagree with the result but agree with the close. (Sometimes an admin has to do what an admin has to do.) Robert McClenon (talk) 01:06, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

I know, I also think it probably needed to be deleted, but c'est la vie. I just wanted to not have to look at it anymore :P ♠PMC(talk) 02:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Tillandsia stubs

Hi, PMC,

Given the time schedule I work on Wikipedia, I've been handling these cultivar PRODs since they've shown up lately. I was surprised to see today's group vanish from the PROD list and it turns out that Spinningspark de-PROD'd over 100 articles this morning. I see he hasn't informed you of this yet so I thought I'd leave you a note. Thanks for your work, clearing out the clutter. Liz Read! Talk! 21:01, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I have revert notifs on and the articles are on my watchlist, so I did notice and have discussed it with him at his talk page. Unfortunately this will mean a large bundled AfD nomination in the future, but so it goes. And thanks right back to you for always being on top of the PROD queue :) ♠PMC(talk) 21:42, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Restore Subrat Saurabh

Hello, I was out of touch from Wikipedia for some time and the page got deleted. Request you to restore the page as it is notable enough having ample sources. Capankajsmilyo (talk) 02:39, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

It was deleted by consensus at AfD. Per the big blue notice at the top of the page, please provide your 3 best sources before I will consider undeletion. ♠PMC(talk) 02:59, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Please restore as draft so that I can work on the page. Capankajsmilyo (talk) 22:28, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Still waiting on sources. ♠PMC(talk) 23:04, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

SPI Rami Sastra/AfD J. Mario Belougi

Hi PMC, Thanks for blocking further socks in this case, another with the curios edit summary News artikel ~~~~ is an IP that edited the draft version, as it was some days ago I'm not adding to SPI but it  Looks like a duck to me JW 1961 Talk 19:18, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Probably, but it isn't editing any more, so no reason to block the IP. ♠PMC(talk) 20:04, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Incomplete Afd merge proposal

When you place a template:Afd-merge to, please remember to also place the template:Afd-merge from template on the target so that interested editors are notified to engage with your proposal. For example, this edit. I know that you were using a tool, but of course you are responsible for edits made with the use of such tools, and this one isn't completing the process. Klbrain (talk) 10:36, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
For completing three of my challenges, and being the first one to complete one twice. Your work at Inuit clothing in particular is very impressive. — Bilorv (talk) 17:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Bilorv Thank you very much for the kind words and barnstar! And thank you for coming up with the challenges, I love that they add a little playfulness to editing without adding stress. I think I have the GA one more than twice but I didn't want to be an embarrassing braggart so I left it at that :) Looking forward to seeing any new ones that come up. ♠PMC(talk) 17:52, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
The article is only a year old, and quite good. Are you sure there isn't a cut and paste move anywhere :P? Scorpions13256 (talk) 23:36, 25 November 2021 (UTC)


While I know I'm supposed to assume good faith, I am slightly suspicious of that account. I have seen a somewhat similar pattern of editing from **sammy** Dawson. (talk · contribs), namely in replacing words with apparently random synonyms, but I'm not sure it's a strong enough similarity to bring it to SPI. TornadoLGS (talk) 04:54, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

If they start editing again it might be worth it, but since they cut it out when I left a warning, I'm not sure it's worth the effort. ♠PMC(talk) 22:33, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Choco chip cookie.png I think we all need to enjoy some unhealthy food after today's happenings. I love a happy ending. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:10, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Hahaha thanks, and sorry to have made you felt like you were being careless - great lesson in the fact that no one understands copyright, least of all me :P ♠PMC(talk) 03:12, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
But seriously though, a few of my removals were genuinely bad, and I am glad I found out this way before I really started to do more work. Care to bring back the content on Scythris concurrens? I was careless on that one too. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Done, on the condition of no more calling yourself careless :) Feel free to let me know if you find any others! ♠PMC(talk) 03:43, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Are the current ones with RD1 tags copyvios after all? I won't call myself careless anymore. Also, I have checked all removals pre-October, and have found no more, so I think we are good. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:46, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
If they're all the same source, they need RD1, as vol 4. of that source was published after 1930 & therefore doesn't hit the 1926 threshold. ♠PMC(talk) 03:51, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
I am pretty sure they are all the same source. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:58, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG Thanks for splitting my article DirkJandeGeer (talk) 01:41, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
Cheers! :) ♠PMC(talk) 02:26, 14 November 2021 (UTC)


Hey, PMC,

I see we are back to PRODding hybrid cultivar ornamentals. Any idea of what should happen to pages like Billbergia sanderiana and Billbergia amoena, which are just a list of red links? Hope you had a good weekend! Liz Read! Talk! 04:24, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Hah, yes, after the AfD closed as unanimous delete I felt it was reasonable to get back to things. IMO where you find them those lists should probably be removed, since it's basically undue importance to have a big list of redlinks. I went ahead and did it for those two articles. Hope you had a good one too! ♠PMC(talk) 04:29, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Deletion: Christopher Holden

Dear PMC,

This page was deleted on Nov 5, 2021. May I ask why this page was deleted and what can be done to restore the page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:08, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) The page was deleted due to the discussion here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christopher Holden (2nd nomination). To restore the page, you should provide your three best reliable, independent sources showing significant coverage of the subject. Elli (talk | contribs) 05:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
Yup basically what Elli said. ♠PMC(talk) 05:29, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Spy (Spy album)

Hi PCM, I think you forgot to delete Spy (Spy album), which was included in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spy (band). Lennart97 (talk) 18:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, XfDcloser must not have caught the multi-nom. ♠PMC(talk) 18:21, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
Thank you! Lennart97 (talk) 18:25, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

A Barnstar from the Lone Star State

A Barnstar!
The American Old West barnstar

For closing the Onlinenow case, a great service to the Lone Star State. Unfortunately, we do not have a Lone Star Barnstar, so please be responsible with this gun. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 21:59, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
On my honor, I will point it only at the most egregious of CCI pages. Thanks Vami! ♠PMC(talk) 22:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

God damn. Don't tell anyone what the year actually was :P ♠PMC(talk) 03:20, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


Could you please bring back the content on Filinota vociferans? The source is apparently Public Domain, according to the info section. Scorpions13256 (talk) 23:34, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

It's PD in the United Kingdom, but not PD in the United States, because it was published after 1930. You were right to remove it - remember, this is one of the ones we had that whole chat on the Discord about. I've responded at your talk page as well. ♠PMC(talk) 03:39, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
The other admins made me question everything. Sorry it made me sound like I wasn't listening. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:55, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
It's okay, remember that I was confused about it too during that discussion until Senne brought up the URAA and showed me the Hirtle chart :) You're not the only one who finds old copyright stuff to be frustrating, please don't stress about it. ♠PMC(talk) 04:03, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your patience. Could you just redact the copyvios in these for me. They have already been removed, but nobody has revdeleted them. This is just making my OCD go crazy. Again, thank you for your time. I'm going to take a break from CCI until I get to Boston after this. I swear to god, I have not made anymore mistakes. I checked them all. Scorpions13256 (talk) 05:26, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

All done, cheers mate :) ♠PMC(talk) 09:22, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. Scorpions13256 (talk) 10:39, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Katarina Janikova and Kate Janik articles

Hi PMC, thank you for deleting the Katarina Janikova article following the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katarina Janikova.

There is also an identical article Kate Janik about her, and its AfD tag links to the same discussion page. I'm not sure how the two articles are connected – they appear to have the same history, same talk page, but obviously separate because when you deleted Katarina Janikova the Kate Janik article survived. Could you please delete Kate Janik too?

Thanks. — Hebrides (talk) 14:19, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Oh, I see. It looks like the page was moved after the AfD was started and no one noticed or made any mention of it at the AfD itself. Weirdly, XfDcloser normally catches that - not sure what happened. In any case, it's gone. ♠PMC(talk) 14:49, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. — Hebrides (talk) 21:15, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uncensored With Ali Tajdary

Hi PMC. You deleted Uncensored With Ali Tajdary per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uncensored With Ali Tajdary a few days ago, but someone has already gone ahead and created Draft:Uncensored With Ali Tajdary. From looking at the AfD discussion, it appears that there was a strong consensus to delete this and it also appears there was some socking going on as well. I don't know if the latter is in play here, but the account that created the draft is not even a day old and the first thing edit made was to create the draft. Could take a look at the draft and see if it's basically what ended up deleted or whether it's a legitimate attempt to address the issues that were pointed out in the AfD? I've got no vested interest either way; I just came across the draft while checking on some non-free files flagged as WP:NFCC#9 violations. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:09, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

There's nothing prohibiting the creation of drafts on deleted topics, even minutes after the deletion. It only becomes a problem if the person attempts to move it into mainspace without enough sourcing to "overcome" the consensus of the AfD. Generally if the timeframe since deletion is short there will usually not be enough new coverage to change things, for example. But that's for AfC to assess if they submit, and NPP to re-draft if they mainspace it themselves. ♠PMC(talk) 07:40, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for taking a look and clarifying things. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:14, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Draft: Karshanam

Hello Sir, would it be possible to have a refund of Draft:Karshanam i will try to improve the draft its probably useful to rescue somewhere Appreciations, Louis770 (talk) 05:03, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Can you post your three best sources so I can see that there actually is more coverage since the AfD, which was fairly recent? ♠PMC(talk) 00:06, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for ur response movie was released in OTT Platform and here is the review Here is asianet review here is kannadaprabha review Louis770 (talk) 19:02, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

The first one of those is basically an announcement that the film will be streaming. The other two were already discussed at the AfD and were deemed not reliable/insufficient to pass GNG. At this point I'm not comfortable restoring to draft as it's clear the sourcing situation hasn't changed. ♠PMC(talk) 00:42, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Buddleja pages

Hello! I've just had a message from Wikipedia that you propose to delete a whole string of Buddleja pages. I would politely suggest before you marked these pages for deletion, perhaps you should have consulted more widely with those who specialise in the genus and its various cultivars/hybrids. Several of these cultivars/hybrids are readily available and referenced in guides such as Beans, Hilliers and the RHS Plant Finder. Many have also recently been included on the Tree and Shrubs Online resource of The International Dendrology Society. Buddlejagarden (talk) 23:52, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Per the rationale given in each PROD, there's a consensus that cultivars are not presumed notable the way that natural species are, and must meet WP:GNG by having significant independent coverage. Commercial nursery listings, trivial mentions, and database entries (RHS Plant Finder being a prime example of a database source) are not considered significant coverage for GNG basis. The consensus is clear from the recent discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants/Archive73#cultivars, as well as the unanimous deletion of undersourced cultivars across several AfDs (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants#Cultivars 2: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tillandsia 'Feather Duster'). Please don't de-PROD these articles without ensuring there is significant independent coverage of the individual cultivars. ♠PMC(talk) 00:04, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
No, the selection for deletion appears arbitrary, as many highlighted for deletion are also referenced in an RHS Plamt Collectors' Guide (Buddlejas - Stuart 2006: A 'reliable' source with an ISBN). Those with suitable references should remain. I don't have the time to follow up every cultivar with only seven days' notice, so I suppose you will have your way, but you are clearly making mistakes due to an unfamiliarity with the genus and its literature. Buddlejagarden (talk) 10:50, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
It's not arbitrary. I'm working through the category in chunks so I don't flood CAT:PROD, going by size as smaller articles are less likely to have referenced content and multiple references. If you see a problem, by all means please bring it up at WT:PLANTS, but you ought to be aware of the existing consensus. I'm not disputing that the RHS Plant Collectors guide is reliable for basic facts, but it doesn't on its own constitute a pass of the WP:GNG, as the GNG requires multiple significant sources, which none of the cultivars I've been tagging have had so far. ♠PMC(talk) 15:02, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
I don't have the time to correct the pages in seven days, but for many I could include additional references. You aren't listening… Buddlejagarden (talk) 16:28, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
You have all the time in the world - anything deleted by PROD can be refunded at your request. Preferably that would be after you locate sources, of course.
I have been checking the sources cited in the articles and so far they have all been inadequate, and when searching I have not found anything additional that would support notability. A check for Buddleja globosa 'Lemon Ball' for example turned up lots of trivial mentions of the cultivar name in descriptions of the species (such as [1], [2], and [3]), but no significant coverage of the cultivar in any depth (its history, development, etc). The most I've seen boiled down to "it's yellow". It's not sufficient to support a claim of notability. If you have additional in-depth sources for that one, I'd be happy to see them, and if you post them here I'll do the work and put them into the article. ♠PMC(talk) 17:23, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

If one were to apply your criteria evenly, then most of the current Buddleja cultivar pages will be deleted, as the current formal literature is sparse and not well updated. In the case of 'Lemon Ball', Beans lists it and includes a putative origin; but it is an older cultivar of such familiarity, no new publication is likely to consider it in any greater detail. Buddleja 'Winter Sun' is distinct and notable enough for a separate page - two additional references are available - Stuart 2006 [1], as cited on numerous other Buddleja pages, and Trees and Shrubs Online, which includes a new and original botanical description, and additional cultivation details - Buddlejagarden (talk) 23:35, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

then most of the current Buddleja cultivar pages will be deleted - if they have inadequate sourcing, this is the point. As I've said, there's clear consensus across WT:PLANTS as well as multiple unanimous AfDs that cultivars without GNG-adequate sourcing should be deleted. I am not the only person who feels this way, just the one who decided to take action. Again, if you think the consensus is wrong or I'm interpreting it wrongly, by all means please reopen the discussion at WT:PLANTS. I will probably take Lemon Ball to AfD as there isn't much in Stuart or that Trees and Shrubs site for it (Stuart is on, which is useful), but for Winter Sun, as promised, I'll update and expand the article. I'll check any future PRODs vs both sources as well, since both are reliable. ♠PMC(talk) 00:39, 4 December 2021 (UTC)


  1. ^ Stuart, D. (2006). Buddlejas. Plant Collector Guide. Timber Press, Oregon, USA. ISBN 978-0-88192-688-0

Li Lingwei

Hello PMC, User:Glorious Engine moved the page Li Lingwei to Li Lingwei (badminton) which was in violation of consensus as per WP:COMMONNAME, which i tried to revert but looks like history of page lies with Li Lingwei badminton still. Can you please see this problem. You can find relevant discussion on move at Talk:Li Lingwei. Thankyou zoglophie 05:18, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

First, you should not be trying to drag a random admin into this without first trying to have an actual human conversation with the user in question (not a template, but an actual civil message that you typed yourself). Second, trying to revert the move by copy/pasting the content causes attribution problems; don't do it again please. (See WP:COPYPASTE for an explanation). I'm going to revert everything to status quo for now, but it's your responsibility to communicate with the user in question if they start again. ♠PMC(talk) 05:28, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
I will cooperate, and will be cautious next time. Thankyou zoglophie 05:31, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
But the whole page is gone looks like. zoglophie 05:33, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Looks like me and another user tried to fix the page at the same time and killed it by accident - it's now fixed. Another reason why randomly dragging other users into the situation is often not helpful. ♠PMC(talk) 05:37, 5 December 2021 (UTC)


Can you undelete the Warwick Speakers article pls 🥺 I'm the president 🥺 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:03, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

No. ♠PMC(talk) 15:10, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Deleted article

If I cannot just re add my article Deportivo Lake Mary that has been deleted with no explained reasons, what should I do? User talk:Wikidoge04) 16:31, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

It wasn't deleted "with no explained reasons". It was clearly redirected by the consensus that formed at AfD, which was linked directly in my original edit summary: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Deportivo Lake Mary. You could attempt to locate significant coverage in reliable sources - that means content written about the team in newspapers, magazines, similar media that are not affiliated with the team or the league. ♠PMC(talk) 15:42, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Charissa (Musician)

Hello, PMC,

An editor has tagged this article for deletion, saying that it was part of the deletion decision at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vicki Brittle which you closed. I always like to check these requests when another article is mentioned in the middle of an AFD discussion to see if deletion is what you intended when you closed this case. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 01:53, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@Liz: As the tagging editor in question, I'll note that regardless of any administrative decision vis-à-vis the AfD result, the article is an unsourced BLP and could very well be deleted on that basis alone. Thanks. --Finngall talk 02:16, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
Whoops, yes, I just didn't see it when closing and XfDcloser didn't catch it. Deleted now. ♠PMC(talk) 02:34, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Pranshu Chatur Lal

Thanks for your comment on AfD. You were quite thorough with the source analysis for a WP:REFUND request on talk page and I'm sorry the editor dragged you into that AfD in that manner. If I hadn't known a previous attempt at notability exaggeration by that editor, I wouldn't have looked closely into Pranshu page or caught on to the PR nature of sources. Hemanthah (talk) 02:27, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Don't apologize, I'm glad you noticed the issues with the source. I just wish I had! ♠PMC(talk) 07:28, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Victoria Kakuktinniq

Updated DYK query.svg

On 21 December 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Victoria Kakuktinniq, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Inuk designer Victoria Kakuktinniq incorporates design elements from the traditional amauti parka into contemporary Inuit clothing (example pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Victoria Kakuktinniq. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Victoria Kakuktinniq), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Updated DYK query.svg Hook update
Your hook reached 6,733 views (561.1 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of December 2021—nice work!

theleekycauldron (talkcontribs) (they/she) 01:38, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Victoria Kakuktinniq

Please see MOS:OPENPARABIO. I'm fine including her Native ethnicity, but nationality also needs to be included and the town she is living in is irrelevant. GiantSnowman 11:48, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Same goes for Nicole Camphaug. How about you discuss this rather than reverting? GiantSnowman 11:52, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
(edit conflict) "3. Context (location, nationality, etc.) for the activities that made the person notable." That she came from Nunavut, the homeland of the Canadian Inuit, is not irrelevant; it's context. And even if you must remove it from the lead, you can do the work of putting it elsewhere in the article - don't just ditch sourced information because you feel it doesn't fit the MOS. As for discussion, the process is WP:BRD - you made a bold change, I reverted, it's on you to discuss before simply reverting again. ♠PMC(talk) 11:54, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
'Inuit' can refer to people in Greenland, Canada, or Alaska - the nationality therefore is key context, far more useful to a reader. I'm happy for it to be re-located as a compromise. GiantSnowman 11:55, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
The nationality is obvious from the words "From Rankin Inlet, Nunavut, Canada", which, although useful to a reader, you insisted on removing. ♠PMC(talk) 11:58, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Writers Barnstar Hires.png The Writer's Barnstar
For doing more than creating Inuit clothing. I could have sworn the article had been around longer. Scorpions13256 (talk) 23:42, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Scorpions! Hope you're doing well, and merry early Christmas :) ♠PMC(talk) 23:54, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy Holidays!

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

--MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:03, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Linkin! Happy holidays to you too! ♠PMC(talk) 06:30, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy holidays!

Aw, very sweet, thanks Vats :) Happy holidays to you too! ♠PMC(talk) 06:30, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy Christmas!

Thanks, merry Christmas to you too! ♠PMC(talk) 05:17, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

PROD of Karnad, Karnataka

See Census Search - Kurnad. This seems to be in the right district. On google maps, it could be Kurnadu, but that isn't 30km north of Mangalore. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 10:50, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

MPGuy2824, good catch. Article moved & updated. ♠PMC(talk) 15:29, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Happy Holidays.png Happy Holidays
Happy holidays PMC, and happy new year! DirkJandeGeer (щи) 00:15, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, Merry Christmas! ♠PMC(talk) 15:21, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Nicole Camphaug

Updated DYK query.svg

On 28 December 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Nicole Camphaug, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that a pair of sealskin-covered high heels (example pictured) by Inuk designer Nicole Camphaug are held in the Bata Shoe Museum of Toronto? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Nicole Camphaug. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Nicole Camphaug), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy Adminship Anniversary!

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Wishing Premeditated Chaos a very Chaos happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Birthday Committee! Best wishes! CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 12:31, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
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The Rice Thresher

Thank you for the comment about your edits on The Rice Thresher page. I understand your points, and I am happy to remove information on the page, but the wholesale removal of all the information does not seem to be an appropriate solution and is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water. How would you like to proceed with a proper winnowing of the information? I can remove the Section sites to the paper's website with ease. They were just included as a response to the comment in the version history about a lack of cites, despite there being over 50+ proper cites with admittedly about 10 bad LinkedIn cites in the original version. Presklein (talk) 23:37, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Notification of VP discussion

A discussion you may be interested in has been opened regarding whether athletes meeting a sport-specific guideline must demonstrate GNG at AfD. JoelleJay (talk) 22:29, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

<div style="font-size: x-small;">The article is a derivative under the <a href="">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License</a>. A link to the original article can be found <a href="">here</a> and attribution parties <a href=";action=history">here</a>. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="">Terms of Use</a>. Gpedia Ⓡ is a registered trademark of the Cyberajah Pty Ltd.</div>