Gpedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Actors and filmmakers

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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Actors and filmmakers. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
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Actors and filmmakers

Anchal Sahu

Anchal Sahu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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fails WP:NACTOR , she has got only one significant role. Princepratap1234 (talk) 13:08, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Kelly Trump

Kelly Trump (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Bild is not an rs per this RSN discussion. Otherwise inadequate sourcing that isn’t good enough for a blp. Fails gng ans pornbio Spartaz Humbug! 22:16, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 22:37, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete Non-notable actress.TH1980 (talk) 03:27, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Annette Schwarz

Annette Schwarz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The only possible RS is Bild that is a tabloid and known to take cavalier attitude to truth to drive up readership RSN discussion. Otherwise just porn ecosystem non news. Fails Gng and Ent is is not sourced to the required level for a blp. Spartaz Humbug! 22:10, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 22:42, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Vivian Schmitt

Vivian Schmitt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Dreadful sourcing, not even on the same page as gng or ent. Spartaz Humbug! 22:05, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 22:49, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Tyra Misoux

Tyra Misoux (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lack of sources here is painful for a blp. Pornbio is no more as this article should be as there is a significant failure to meet the gng and ent. Spartaz Humbug! 22:00, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 22:52, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Katja Kassin

Katja Kassin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Porn biography that fails to meet the gng or ent. Pornbio has long been depreciated and the sourcing here is inadequate to meet the standard demanded for blps. Spartaz Humbug! 21:56, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 22:54, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Bernhard Henrich

Bernhard Henrich (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:CREATIVE. Set designers don't get much press, and a shared Oscar nomination isn't enough. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:51, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment. In my experience, shared Oscar nominations, particularly single ones and in obscure fields, do not stave off deletion. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:57, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Jay Rodan

Jay Rodan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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A BEFORE search does not reveal anything to indicate this person meets WP criteria for WP:ACTOR or WP:CREATIVE, WP:NARTIST. It seems they are an actor who was also part of a gallery. I'm bringing it here to the community, for others to provide their feedback. Netherzone (talk) 23:16, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Ron Dean

Ron Dean (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Although I'm familiar with his work in The Breakfast Club, The Fugitive and The Dark Knight, none of his roles are significant enough, thereby failing WP:NACTOR. I also couldn't find any coverage about him thus failing WP:BASIC. The Film Creator (talk) 16:47, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Zoey Albert

Zoey Albert (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Total lack of notability, e.g. her role on "La suerte de Loli" was in one episode only, and received no attention. Of the 5 sources, only IMDb (which is user-generated and thus does nothing to establish notability) is about her, the other 4 don't even mention her(!). Looking for better sources produces nothing usable at all. Fram (talk) 15:56, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Craig Goodwill

Craig Goodwill (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lack of sufficient notability Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 15:00, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Gareth Locke

Gareth Locke (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I'm not seeing significant coverage in reliable sources, although I do see a lot of coverage in tabloid journalism like Hello! and the Daily Mail. So, I'm not seeing a WP:GNG pass on this one. theleekycauldron (talkcontribs) (they/them) 00:46, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Tony Camonte

Tony Camonte (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I found no significant coverage for this actor and the article is only sourced to IMDb. Not to be confused with the notable character. SL93 (talk) 00:05, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Russell Stuart

Russell Stuart (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails sigcov. Been deleted in 2006 and recreated/updated by UPE. scope_creepTalk 13:25, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Jeanne Bowser

Jeanne Bowser (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No indication of notability. I am unable to find significant discussion of this individual in multiple reliable sources. Acting career does not appear to be notable either. ... discospinster talk 01:19, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom. I tried and failed to find any decent coverage of this individual. Does not meet WP:GNG and notability isn't inherited. WCMemail 13:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment - For what it's worth, here are the WP:THREE best sources I could find about her: [1][2][3]. It seems she popped up in newspapers from 2001-2007 (mainly 2004-2006), and after that, I can't really find her. Here are some passing mentions on her, in theatre reviews: [4][5][6], and one semi-interview/article with her and other cast members: [7]. - Whisperjanes (talk) 06:55, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Oleg Kharuk

Oleg Kharuk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not seem to meet the criteria for sports or creatives. A brief glance at the sources (via machine translation) will reveal that the sources are mostly completely irrelevant to this subject, mere listings or bare mentions (not substantial coverage). Salimfadhley (talk) 23:12, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Dominik Castell

Dominik Castell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable actor with no significant coverage. SL93 (talk) 23:49, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Charles Tranberg

Charles Tranberg (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I came to this biography looking to fix it up, since he appears to be a successful film biographer who has written the authoritative biographies of actors like Robert Taylor. However, after doing some fairly thorough searching in various places, the only secondary reviews of his work that I could find were the Santa Fe New Mexican review of Fred MacMurray: A Biography and a one-paragraph review of Robert Taylor: A Biography in the journal Nebraska History that doesn't rise to WP:SIGCOV by my account. WP:NAUTHOR criterion 4c requires that their work has received "significant critical attention", and I unfortunately don't think his work rises to that level. I can find nothing secondary at all about him as a person, and nothing even in primary sources about basic biographical information like where he attended college, so if kept this would necessarily be a permastub. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 21:12, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Macan Band

Macan Band (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non Notable Band with zero significant coverage in a reliable source. Also Fails WP:DIRECTOR for not having multiple lead roles in films. Behind the moors (talk) 14:42, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Siphesihle Ndaba

Siphesihle Ndaba (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Nothing more than a PR. Fails WP:NACTOR. Not having multiple lead roles in notable films. Behind the moors (talk) 14:31, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

George Nakas

George Nakas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Actor with only three acting credits (according to the Swedish Film Database which seems reliable), none of them major roles and as such failing WP:NACTOR (also has some songwriting credits, equally minor). WP:GNG is not met either as far as I can tell; I included in my BEFORE a search of Swedish newspapers where there are a few mentions but no significant coverage. Lennart97 (talk) 13:01, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Devin Kim Hansen

Devin Kim Hansen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:ENT, large amounts of unsourced BLP material, no indication of notability. Reliable sources regard the subject as a secondary matter to the main issue at hand. Dark-World25 (talk) 06:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Dagne Crane

Dagne Crane (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No significant coverage and no major roles. SL93 (talk) 01:12, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Zoë Robins

Zoë Robins (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No wp:rs, not having multiple lead roles fails wp:nactor. Behind the moors (talk) 11:12, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Keep - two roles in TV series. Covered in >2 indep sources. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:18, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
We need 2 lead roles, not 2 roles. Behind the moors (talk) 17:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
On'es definitely a lead role (and pretty high profile), the other's...I dunno, a power ranger...and there are sources. Good enough for me. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, Power Rangers was definitely a lead role. Antientropic (talk) 22:58, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Great - well that's two lead roles then. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:03, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
Please share a source which says that she is a lead actress in "The Wheel of Time". Behind the moors (talk) 08:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
From the Spinoff article cited: "Three years ago it was announced that New Zealand actor Zoë Robins would be taking on a lead role in Amazon’s massive production of The Wheel of Time." And from Variety: "The “Wheel of Time” series at Amazon has found its main cast. Josha Stradowski has been cast in the role of Rand al’Thor, with Marcus Rutherford set to play Perrin Aybara and Zoë Robins playing Nynaeve." Antientropic (talk) 10:50, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
Sounds cool, but still confused as while nomination I saw her as a side character in some journal. Waiting for some experienced people to understand about it. Behind the moors (talk) 12:16, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, plicit 11:23, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Walkiria Espino

Walkiria Espino (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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the topic of this article Fails wikipedia Notability , there is NO evidence of Notability Samat lib (talk) 10:18, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions Samat lib (talk) 10:25, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, plicit 11:35, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

  • Delete - This musician doesn't appear to meet any WP:SINGER criteria. Existing references in the article (as well as the article on Spanish Gpedia, which is also being considered for deletion) are all trivial. A quick web search also doesn't turn up with anything significant. Shells-shells (talk) 08:12, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Piru Sáez

Piru Sáez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Text in Spanish. Only reference is IMDb. Rathfelder (talk) 20:48, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:06, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Faruk Sobhan Nayeem

Faruk Sobhan Nayeem (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Appeared in some TV series and films, but not major roles. Fails WP:NACTOR. Htanaungg (talk) 08:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 08:48, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Devon (actress)

Devon (actress) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This was kept almost 4 years ago based on arguments that no longer have the same value since pornbio has been discarded. What we have here is possibly one page in a book that the reference is more of the then boyfriend then her. Then there is a film review so that’s about the film and not her. Then a couple of interviews as part of the usual porn industry noise so not really anything we can use to determine notability. In short fails GNG and ENT. Another redirect to AVN HOF after deletion seems appropriate. Spartaz Humbug! 21:43, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

I quote: Another redirect to AVN HOF after deletion seems appropriate" - this is the worst possibility. By what right do you want to create redirect from living person to an article about award? AVN HOF is just one of the awards gained by Devon. Create redirect from living person to an article about award of AVN HOF is totally senseless, ridiculous and without any common sense. Either keep artcile or delete article, you have no right to create absurdal and pointless redirects. Subtropical-man ( | en-2) 02:41, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 04:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Probably keep. Crazy, but role in Pirates counts as a WP:NACTOR-notable film, and being a Penthouse Pet ought to be enough to claim multiple notable productions. Hyperbolick (talk) 08:54, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    • Not only is your argument opinion without policy basis but you fail to address the lackmof sources. Penthouse has long not been a basis on which to keep unsourced blps. Spartaz Humbug! 09:01, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, plicit 23:50, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

  • Keep Notable film role as well as a being a well known pinup girl featured in nation publications meet requirements.Super (talk) 23:55, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    • Another policy based opinion that does not address the gng deficiency. HOTTIE has been depreceated even longer than PORNBIO Spartaz Humbug! 09:01, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
    • Per
      she has met the criteria for Pirates alone as its a well known unique, very notable film. She has also been inducted in to the AV Hall of Fame. Is this AfD because its pornography related? If so a good explanation as to why av stars should be treated no different then any other profession can be found in the first AfD in a comment by User:Subtropical-manSuper (talk) 21:33, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
      • Which policy is tohat under. Aside from the fact that your comment makes no sense and that subtropical man’s contribution or porn afds were charactarised by ridiculous assertions of notability, lets address your assertions in details. Do you have a source to show her contribution to the film was significant and that it was unique? Regardless of that its not a policy based reason to keep as Pornbio has been removed. Ditto HoF not longer counts due to pornbio being removed. Ad hom claims just demonstrate you have no proper basis to argue keep. Av stars get treated the same as other entertainers. Do you have any sources at all please? Spartaz Humbug! 22:28, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep - notable film role + the most important award in the porn industry ("Porn Oscars"). However, I would ask you not to ping me on similar topics. I abandoned pornography topic few years ago because there are several users on Gpedia, who decided to fight pornography in Gpedia. A perfect example is nominator - User:Spartaz, responsible for removing hundreds of articles in pornographic topic. According to his assumptions, ~99% of pornographic articles are to be removed. My question is - instead of this - isn't it better to block abuses of these few users like Spartaz from Gpedia (there is an appropriate tool: topic ban for uses AfD pages) and save/rescue thousands of articles in Gpedia? I think this is worth discussing so that the user is no longer allowed to abuse templates for removal. His war with pornography in Gpedia and his extremely extreme deletionism should end. Actions by user:Spartaz are so destructive that it's hard to believe that blocking this one user will save/rescue thousands of Gpedia articles. Subtropical-man ( | en-2) 23:02, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Firstly note this user was pinged so is a canvassed vote. Secondly, subtropical, eithee retract your sttements about me or I'll report you to ANI for a personal attack / poisoning of the well. Your choice. Spartaz Humbug! 12:54, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
  • I did not notice any personal attacks and I had no intention of attacking any person as such, I want only presenting the problem. Nevertheless, I have tweaked the text to be less possessive. My current comment above is not a personal attack. Includes my vote on the AfD and my opinion about large problem on the English Gpedia associated with the nominated article and the AfD generally. I proposed a solution to the problem, to be able to save/rescue hundreds of articles. The above comment complies with Gpedia rules, not describe the user as such, not use profanity, it merely represents destructive user' behavior - and that is allowed. You don't even have a basis to create a thread for ANI, because you think that if someone describes your behavior, you perceive it as a personal attack. We can describe actions by other users, it is completely in line with Gpedia rules, because this is what reporting irregularities about user. I believe that my above comment can be pasted directly (by copy/paste method) into ANI in new case/report about "AfD' topic ban" for you and will not be treated as a personal attack by other users. @Supercopone:, as you can see - please do not ping me on such matters (pornography topic and AfD) because my vote will do nothing, the problem is much bigger and I can see only one solution - thematic restriction (topic ban) for a few users who abuse the AfD templates and pages. If you have another idea to solve this big problem, feel free to write. Subtropical-man ( | en-2) 14:29, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete "Pirates" the film being notable does not transfer notability onto the performers. They have to stand on their own, and this one does not. Awards & noms are irrelevant, as established in wp:pornbio deprecation. The usual AVN, XBIZ, and porn dvd listings are irrelevant. Interviews are primary, used to support stated facts in an article, not build notability. Would also note that the extreme hostility shown by this subtropical guy should see their "vote" stricken and possibly an escalation into a filing to have their behavior examined. Zaathras (talk) 14:05, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
    • Please stop trying to intimidate other voters. I get it you do not like pornogaphy, lets keep our personal feelings out of this. A vote is a vote and we work off of consensus here.Super (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
      Seeing how you improperly solicited Subtropical man to come here, based on his agreement with you on this subject (a violation of WP:CANVASS), you have already done what you could to sabotage the discussion, and are in no position to lecture others. Zaathras (talk) 15:47, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
      User:Supercopone and user:Zaathras, this debate is pointless. Everyone had their own opinion on this matter, further discussion or quarrel does not make sense. Subtropical-man ( | en-2) 16:18, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
      No, it isn't pointless at all, but this isn't the proper venue to discuss it...ANI will be. Zaathras (talk) 18:02, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Vesey Alfred Davoren


Vesey Alfred Davoren (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Appears to fail WP:NACTOR and WP:BASIC (WP:SOLDIER is now deprecated). There are some hits for "Vesey Davoren" or "Vesey O'Davoren" on newspapers.com but nothing approaching WP:SIGCOV I can see. Film roles generally minor. Sourced mainly to genealogical records; see WP:NOTMEMORIAL and WP:NOTGENEALOGY. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:01, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:01, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:01, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:01, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:01, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom, fails WP:BASIC, long list of poorly referenced minor roles and large and largely unreferenced section about his wife used to bulk up page. Mztourist (talk) 04:35, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete: despite the long filmography he seems to have very minor roles, and as per nom. ww2censor (talk) 10:12, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • KEEP, he was an unusual survivor of WW1, a war hero even, and his film career spanned silent and then talkie eras. An Anglo-Irish-Englishman who went to LA. And his wife was a talent, or do women not count? If this man is considered not notable one has to wonder exactly what is 'notable' in Wiki terms? His film work is properly referenced and more would become apparent of his career, for example his exceptional house in LA is still there. What is there not to like? Seems a shame that decent hard researched stuff is getting not just edited out but en-bloc deleted?Rodolph (talk) 13:42, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete Bit parts, and the war hero claim is tenuous at best. Maybe the bits about his wife should be split off into their own article, considering her section has more useful information than his (if it can be properly documented). Intothatdarkness 14:08, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    @Intothatdarkness: I actually found this article looking for his wife. There may be just enough material to create it. I didn't find a huge amount of coverage but there definitely is some more. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 14:42, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    Perhaps it could be renamed and refocused on her, then? With a note about him somewhere in a "Personal Life" section. She seems to have been more notable. Intothatdarkness 16:45, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Some links https://www.lordheath.com/Vesey_ODavoren.html ; http://www.cinefania.com/persona.php/Vesey+O'Davoren/en ; https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/154709367/vesey-o'davoren ; & https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/255875-lieut-vesey-a-davoren-suffolk-regiment-confusion-over-death/ Rodolph (talk) 18:32, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
None of these are reliable sources. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 23:15, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
None reliable? Incontrovertible, I'd say. One of them even includes a photo of a newspaper cutting. Is this a matter of taste rather than reliable biography? Rodolph (talk) 08:55, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
The newspaper clipping itself would be reliable if we had the actual newspaper. But the clipping does not say what newspaper it came from, and it's published on a web forum, which as user-generated content is not reliable. More broadly, notability is not the same thing as WP:ITEXISTS. The subject of a biography must have received significant coverage, not just coverage full stop, to qualify for an article. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 14:12, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
user-generated content, how else do articles get written then if not by users? Rodolph (talk) 15:11, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
are you saying the whole article was made up, that Davoren is as real as Peppa Pig? Rodolph (talk) 15:12, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
No. I'm saying that we can't rely on self-published or user-generated content as sources for Gpedia articles. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 16:45, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete: Subject doesn't appear to meet WP:GNG or WP:ENT based on my WP:BEFORE and the sources currently in the article. TJMSmith (talk) 15:02, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Much of the info that made him notable was deleted, so here it is as a reminder:
'He enrolled in the British Army's 7th Suffolk Regiment, under the command of Colonel Charles Douglas Parry Crooke. In October 1915 his Company (B) was massacred in action around the Hohenzollern Redoubt, just after the Battle of Loos.
The 7th Battalion of the Suffolk Regiment's War Diary,[5] 13 October 1915, states that:
Davoren ... was wounded [shot in foot and then side] in the action on the Hohenzollern Redoubt on October 11th, but continued to lead his Company until killed by a shot from a machine gun.
-Officers Killed
Major Currey (Vere Fortrey), ("an unsurpassed linguist". Killed commanding ‘B’ Company in the first attack upon the south side of the “Hair-pin”);
Captain Cobbold (Charles Augustus), (a pre-war director of the brewing magnates Ind, Coope and Co.);
Captain Sorley (Charles Hamilton) (the poet);
Lieutenant Gedge (Peter);
Lieutenant Wood (Geoffrey Dayrell);
2/Lieutenant Hartopp (Charles William Liddell);
2/Lieutenant Lee (Richard).
-Severely wounded
2/Lieutenant Smith (Donald Claude) died that day.
-Officers Wounded
Major Henty (George Herbert), (died 30 Nov. 1917)
and
Lieutenant Davoren (V. A.) [only survivor].
Davoren was rescued, carried for two miles, by Sergeant-Major Martin, of Bury.[6]
Film career
In his youth, as an undergraduate, before World War One he acted in Dublin's Abbey Theatre.[7] In the 1914-1919 war he was wounded thrice and was at one time reported dead. He temporarily lost his voice in a German mustard gas attack, and was given six months to live if he moved to a dry climate. He arrived in Hollywood, California, with his wife in 1920 where he acted in silent films before recovering his voice. He also directed plays and was in an early Hollywood Bowl production of The Pied Piper, taking the title role. He had changed his name to O'Davoren on arriving in America, on applying for U.S. Citizenship, perhaps aware of the romanticism of the Clann O'Dabhoireann and the American fondness for things Irish.[8] Between 1927 and 1957, he appeared in circa 67 films, mostly as butlers.[7][9]'Rodolph (talk) 15:39, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
@Rodolph What part of this is the part you're pointing at to show notability? -- asilvering (talk) 18:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Being with his wife the lead photo & caption of the front page of The Sun and The New York Herald of Sunday 9 May 1920 (see https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030273/1920-05-09/ed-1/seq-25/) seems notable.Rodolph (talk) 18:07, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
"Notability" isn't quite the same thing as "being famous". But additionally, that's about his wife. He's not even in that photograph. -- asilvering (talk) 18:28, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Davoren is in the photo, twice even, the death mask is of him.Rodolph (talk) 15:38, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
I only see the death mask, twice. The guy on the left isn't Davoren. So no, Davoren is not in this photograph, as far as I can tell. But either way, that's all this is - a photograph and an image caption. Is there anything you can find of him in, for example, books about early film actors? Or the silent film scene in LA? You mentioned his house in LA, is there information on that that could be relevant? I think the newspapers have been plumbed about as thoroughly as they can be at this point, and none of them look like significant coverage (they just briefly say that he is significant, as a person). We're all obviously striking out just searching for his name, but I don't think Googling his name would turn up, for example, a reasonably extended section on him in a printed book about early 20thc movie actors. -- asilvering (talk) 18:28, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
I never said he was in the photo. He is in the front page montage, twice. The house, the details were listed in the refs/footnotes, have a look. 21:56, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
I know this isn't a sign of notability (who are we/you to ascertain what or who is notable, anyway?), but it shows he existed: ( https://www.fold3.com/document/8439819/declaration-of-intention-1926-naturalizations-ca-southern ) Rodolph (talk) 19:14, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
We are exactly the people to judge notability. Notability is a Gpedia guideline—it's not a philosophical judgment on a person's worth or significance. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 19:18, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
Davoren was passed as notable in March 2018.. Why not now? What has changed?19:31, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete. Well, I tried. I do think it's quite possible that there's some reasonable amount of coverage in a print book somewhere, and a way to find that might be via the house (for a local history book) or via the long list of minor movie credits (something in a book on the LA silent film scene, maybe). His easily misspelled name surely isn't helping, either. I'm not terribly inclined towards advocating deletion for historical figures with factual, non-polemic biographies, but the sourcing here is thin enough that I'm not convinced that's what we're looking at, and more doesn't seem to be forthcoming. I'm concerned that the only information we have for his death is the findagrave website. I do find it very odd that a 100-year-old man who had been a film actor of any note could die in 1989 without an obituary in the newspapers, though of course that isn't completely impossible. I'd be happy (relieved, even) to switch this vote to keep if anything further is found. Update: striking my !vote; obituary found. I don't know that we can truthfully call any of this "significant coverage", but at least it's no longer entirely passing mentions. If someone wants to turn this into a well-sourced stub, I'm not going to be getting in their way. (asilvering (talk) 15:24, 3 December 2021 (UTC)) -- asilvering (talk) 19:45, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
There is stuff in a printed source, see the footnotes, the Suffolk Regiment's WW1 war diary. This man's notability is cumulative. Surviving the Western Front, having been said dead, and then re-inventing himself in the USA, being in dozens of films and then living to 100. None perhaps 'notable' but as a whole it is. His WW1 was notable.Rodolph (talk) 19:55, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
What we're trying to establish here is notability based on significant coverage, according to Gpedia's guidelines. None of that is significant coverage; it's a series of facts or assertions about his life. The relevant section is here: WP:SIGCOV. If you have additional evidence that you believe meets this, please share it! Regarding your earlier Davoren was passed as notable in March 2018, can you explain what you mean by this? -- asilvering (talk) 20:59, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for trying. Interesting point re lack of obit. People who excessively outlive their contemporaries can often be slightly unduly forgotten.Rodolph (talk) 23:00, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
re Asilverlining: 'Regarding your earlier Davoren was passed as notable in March 2018, can you explain what you mean by this?', by that I mean that I assumed (as one is told that so & so from 'bio verification' (or some-such name) had checked it) that new articles were assessed by various roaming editors, and therefore that when the article was posted in March 2018 someone must have approved it. Rodolph (talk) 23:03, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
That was likely new page patrol. A reviewer from new page patrol or articles for creation may mark an article as reviewed but nothing prevents other editors who perceive issues with the article from tagging it with a maintenance tag, proposing it for deletion, or nominating it for deletion, as here. Being marked as reviewed on creation does not mean an article is "approved" forever. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 23:26, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
Ivy de Verley, Mrs Davoren, her portrait (dated 1924 or 1927) of Nola Luxford is in New Zealand's National Library, Wellington.Rodolph (talk) 23:53, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
A photo of Ivy de Verley's mask portrait of James McBey, is in the collection of Aberdeen Archives, Gallery & Museums (Scotland)
Aberdeen Archives' quote: 'Artist Info - Ivy de Verley was born in Jamaica, West Indies on 27 July 1879. She lived in London, England for many years and studied in Berlin, before returning to Jamaica. Her Jamaican studio was destroyed by an earthquake in 1920, at which time she moved to Los Angeles. During the 1920s and 30s Ivy painted "mask" portraits and was active in the local art scene as the wife of actor Captain Vesey O'Davoren. She died in Los Angeles on 27 December 1963.' ( https://emuseum.aberdeencity.gov.uk/objects/139170/mask-portrait-of-james-mcbey-photograph-album-belonging-t?ctx=a162be231c3a02d15d6988782e012d5c6b4b8c42&idx=0 ) Rodolph (talk) 00:04, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Ivy's pastel portrait of Halliwell Hobbes was sold on 31 May 2017, at Burstow & Hewett, East Sussex (UK).Rodolph (talk) 00:20, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Fascinating, but all that does is bolster the notability claim for THE WIFE, not THE HUSBAND. I suggested above that the information about her could be put in its own article, as she's clearly more notable than he is based on your own evidence. Even the nominator says he found the page while searching for information about the wife. Intothatdarkness 00:29, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Ivy de Verley now exists, so any and all additional information about her can be added to that page. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 01:17, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Very nice! Maybe now she can garner the respect she deserves instead of being buried in this article. Intothatdarkness 03:34, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
This respectable Friends of the Suffolk Regiment blog describes the action at the Hairpin during the Battle of Loos, in October 1915 ( https://www.friendsofthesuffolkregiment.org/operation-legacy/the-hairpin ).
Alongside Davoren that day were Charles Sorley and Vere Fortrey Currey ( https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/93077 ).
Davoren was the only one of the 10 officers of his Company (B), of the 7th battalion of the Suffolk Regiment, to survive that day, & himslef had been reported killed. Rodolph (talk) 00:53, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Comment I find nothing that carries significant coverage about him and I've looked for several days. Lots of one line mentions for various films in both archive.org and newspapers.com. I did find the original source for this blog. While we cannot use the blog as it is self-published, we could use the original book. Also found this clipping that says he was interviewed as part of a 1986 cable TV series Old Hollywood as Seen Through the Eyes of Her Senior Residents, Section V, p 1 and Section V, p 6 and a single line, not even a proper obit that confirms the death date. Short of going to a library that might have non-digitized records on him, or finding a transcript or review of his 1986 interview, there just doesn't seem to be enough information available to write a detailed biography from available published and curated secondary sources. SusunW (talk) 21:35, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
The Los Angeles Times, 24 November 1986, page 59 (by Ann Japenga):' One of the video's subjects is Vici O'Davoren, 98. After inhaling poisonous gas in World War I, O'Davoren lost his ability to speak. So he came to Hollywood to act small parts in silent films, a resourceful move since he didn't regain his speech for seven years. Like the other characters in the video [made by Lyn Picallo & Wendy Robbins], he talks mostly about Hollywood as home, not as a sprawling movie studio, says Robbins. ' (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-11-24-vw-12858-story.html) Rodolph (talk) 22:53, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Here is a link to Vesey & Ivy O'Davoren's extraordinary LA home (2049-N-Las-Palmas-Ave_Los-Angeles_CA_90068), this sale particulars includes photos of them therein. https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2049-N-Las-Palmas-Ave_Los-Angeles_CA_90068_M12539-92962#photo5 Rodolph (talk) 22:53, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
FULLER listing, more photos: https://www.estately.com/listings/info/2049-n-las-palmas-avenue--1 Rodolph (talk) 23:01, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
TOPANGA YACHT CLUB, Topanga, California: 2021-08-05 The Malibu Times - "The Topanga Yacht Club" by Pablo Capra :(https://lowertopangaarchive.blogspot.com/2021/08/2021-08-05-malibu-times-topanga-yacht.html), here's the main part of their article, some of which is correct: 'In 1924, the Los Angeles Athletic Club bought Topanga Beach with the intention of building a Yacht Harbor. To promote the cause, British actor Captain Vesey O’Davoren (1888-1989) founded the Topanga Yacht Club in 1928. He proudly claimed descent from two English Prime Ministers, William Pitt (1708-1778) and “Iron Duke” Arthur Wellesley (1769-1852), as well as a family of medieval Irish scholars. His title, Captain, came from serving in the British Royal Air Force during World War I, where he was injured several times, including by a mustard gas attack that left him voiceless. In 1920, he left England, for better acting opportunities in Hollywood. He could still work because films were silent, and recovered his voice in time for the advent of sound films in 1927, but mostly played butlers. He did not live at Topanga Beach. Hardly any of the Club’s members did. Topanga was simply a preferred shelter for small boat owners before the Bay had marinas or breakwaters. USC students turned the social club into a racing team in 1930, with O’Davoren remaining its leader, or Commodore....The Club’s first officer, Helene Raymond (1878-1951), lived at Topanga Beach. She was the nation’s number two archer and an old friend of O’Davoren, who’d previously served on the California State Archery Association...' Rodolph (talk) 00:02, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment Rodolph at this point you're WP:BLUDGEONing the process. To quote: "If you have been accused of bludgeoning the process, then take a look at the discussion and try to be objective before you reply. If your comments take up one-third of the total text or you have replied to half the people who disagree with you, you are likely bludgeoning the process and should step back and let others express their opinions, as you have already made your points clear." I suggest you stop and let this AFD take its course. Mztourist (talk) 06:20, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
I strongly disagree, and might ask you not to bully me. I have been finding NEW information, or clarifying things, or helping you to see info that had been obscured by other deletions, in an attempt to prevent a great wrong.Rodolph (talk) 09:04, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
I am not bullying you in any sense. Did you even read the quote from BLUDGEON? Have you read WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS? I suggest you stop or this will go to ANI. Mztourist (talk) 11:05, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
As I said I have posted fresh info on the subject and am not trying to bludgeon anyone. Finding more info seems a good thing to do and to say that is bludgeoning others feels like victim blaming, in that O'Davoren is the victim and needs defending. Ergo not bludgeoning but self-defence. Sorry if that has bored you. Rodolph (talk) 12:01, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
All you've done is demonstrated the notability of the wife, which led to the creation of an article covering her. Your repeated postings could easily be seen as bullying those who disagree with you. Mztourist is correct...take a step back and take comfort in the fact that this led to the recognition of a woman's notability (something you commented on early in the process), even if that wasn't your original objective. Intothatdarkness 14:33, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Sorry, I never assumed that I was remotely vexing anyone. I just like information and thought that it had better be enthusiastically aired, and that some of the finer points of Davoren's notability are being missed. What is there not to like? It is a shame that my joining in is seen as threatening. Rodolph (talk) 17:24, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps I understand the problem. By British standards Davoren is easily notable; Irish-English-Suffolk-Hollywood, etc. If he was to be judged by just UK standards, or if he was Polish and this page was say Polish Wiki, he'd be without doubt in, but English is international so his notability has to compete with global English thus worldwide and amongst editors/people who may not hold WWI in as much awe as the English/British/Irish do. Rodolph (talk) 22:16, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
No, its just that he fails WP:BASIC globally. Mztourist (talk) 06:36, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
I am utterly baffled by your responses on this AfD. What everyone is either trying to find, or has given up on finding (and thus called for "delete"), is significant coverage that establishes the notability (in Gpedia terms) of the subject. The full guideline pages are here: WP:N for everything, and WP:BIO for people. You appear to be responding based on some other definition of "notable" that is not found in either place, or in any of the other sub-guidelines people have linked you to. It isn't "notable" to have many film roles, unless they are major roles. It isn't notable to have survived WWI when others died. It isn't notable to have a house in LA. It isn't notable to immigrate to the USA. It isn't notable to have a notable wife. It isn't notable to be a descendent of William Pitt. That doesn't mean that he isn't interesting, that he never existed, that none of the information you've provided is true, or that we're trying to perform a damnatio memoriae. It just means that he does not meet the criteria for a Gpedia entry. -- asilvering (talk) 07:31, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. 7&6=thirteen () 20:15, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep In 1989 Variety published an obituary of Vesey Alfred Davoren. In fact a chunk of text in this article was a copyright violation of the obituary so I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up yet. I've added the source and some information and removed the copyvio from the article. Unfortunately this obituary isn't accessible without access to the Variety archives (some libraries might have this). Aside from this obituary, sources are incredibly weak and passing. The article needs MAJOR clean up, which once done will relegate it to a stub most likely. I think the existence of the obituary probably invalidates a lot of the arguments above (which I agreed with until this popped up in my search). Vladimir.copic (talk) 02:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    That's a helpful source, but a single obituary is not WP:THREE in-depth sources. I'd reconsider my nomination if there were even one more in-depth source. However, 5.5 paragraphs in one notable source does not notability make, IMO. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 02:35, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    I am under no illusions that this article will likely always be a stub with a handful of sources supporting it. However, Variety is pretty much the paper of record for Hollywood. An obituary there counts for a lot. We also have an entry in this book (now added to article) along with the many passing mentions and filmographies elsewhere. That should do it. (Sidenote: WP:THREE is just an essay and one that many misunderstand. It is about using the best three sources to support information or an article rather than providing a larger number of sources that editors do not have time to go through. Mistakenly, people use this to argue that three RS are needed to give notability. Always leaves me scratching me head.) Vladimir.copic (talk) 03:11, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    Respectfully disagree that this is enough but we're at the border line and it comes down to individual takes on the sources. WP:THREE is good shorthand for notability: one bit of WP:SIGCOV is clearly not enough, two is getting there and probably enough for notability, and three seals it. Three good sources is a good rule of thumb for notability and I'm comfortable citing the essay for that view. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:23, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    There is also an obituary in Classic Images from 1989 but I don't think it's been digitized. It's fine if you have your own standard of needing three reliable sources to determine notability. It is just bizarre to quote the WP:THREE essay (literally called Three Best Sources) which does not make this argument at all. I have actually abided by the spirit of this essay by only providing the "best" sources I have found - otherwise I would have refbombed every passing mention. Please see the author's clarifying note where he says This was never intended to set a standard that three good sources is either a necessary or sufficient condition for a topic to be considered notable. 03:55, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    Maybe the author wanted the standard to be higher then that. Otherwise, what should it be? Three bad sources? One or two bad ones? One good one and two bad ones? --Adamant1 (talk) 07:35, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    Your find of the obituary got me trawling back through the passing newspaper mentions again, and while I still didn't find anything sizeable, there is this LA Times article (20 June 1934: 10) that describes him and three others (one of whom has a wikipedia page) as "well-known actors" (my italics), distinct from the other "players" mentioned afterwards. That's at least better than what I found earlier, which mostly just established "he is an actor", full stop. -- asilvering (talk) 10:37, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete Does not meet the WP:ANYBIO thresholds as an actor or soldier. MrsSnoozyTurtle 06:45, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep Coverage about him building a boat in his backyard, and who he is related to and married to. [1] Minor coverage in places like [2] as he and two others sail to New York saying they are fed up with English producers. 84 newspaper.com search results to go through. They considered him important enough to mention all sorts of things about him. And with the obituary Vladimir.copic found, that's enough to convince me he is notable. He lived to be 100 years old. Dream Focus 07:47, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
    • [1] is local media coverage and focusses on the boat rather than the individual. [2] is a brief passing mention. MrsSnoozyTurtle 23:07, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "1 Sep 1937, 28 - The Los Angeles Times at Newspapers.com". Newspapers.com. Retrieved 2021-12-03.
  2. ^ "15 Feb 1920, Page 23 - New York Herald at Newspapers.com". Newspapers.com. Retrieved 2021-12-03.
Extended, only marginally relevant discussion
7&6=thirteen I often see you citing WP:Preserve in AfDs discussions as a reason to keep articles. In this particular case the discussion doesn't have anything to do with the content of the article and that's what WP:Preserve is about. So can you clarify how it's relevant? --Adamant1 (talk) 15:48, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
The article was created at considerable effort. It contains a lot of information useful to our readers. One should err on the side of keeping too much of the irrelevant, and not on deleting the relevant. WP:Not paper applies too. While I WP:AGF, you might read the linked pages so we can avoid this rhetorical question in the future.
The article is now amply sourced, which should be a consideration.
Best to you. 7&6=thirteen () 18:59, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
If you do AGF, you might do well to assume others have read and considered those linked essays. The article appears to be an outgrowth of the creator's interest in genealogy, which while labor-intensive does not guarantee notability. I, for one, have always been dubious of the obituary standard. Obituaries are not fact-checked to any degree, and are often produced either prior to death by the individual concerned or otherwise curated by family members. Intothatdarkness 19:56, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
Likewise, you "might do well to assume others have read and considered those linked essays." Gpedia:Sauce for the goose is (not) sauce for the gander That there is a disagreement about the consequences of such consideration means we disagree. Your claim that this obituary was not fact checked sounds like pure personal supposition to me. WP:OR, WP:Synth. WP:Verifiabilty not WP:Truth. Ipse dixit butters no parsnips here. 7&6=thirteen () 20:58, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
And once again you resort to a wall of meaningless wiki-links. I was referring to the obituary standard in general and the fact that not all of them are fact-checked. Therefore I question their reliability as sound sources. And I find it quite ironic that you would link an essay about dogmatic statements. Intothatdarkness 21:19, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
7+6=13, It's hard for me to assume good faith when you discounted WP:THREE in your "vote" because it's an essay and then cited multiple essays in your subsequent comments to support your opinion. Also, it's rather bad faithed to call my question rhetorical. It's perfectly reasonable to ask why someone is citing a guideline for a reason to keep the article that has absolutely nothing to do with notability or the AfD process. And I was wanting an answer about it. So in no was it rhetorical. Outside of that, from what I can tell Variety has an extremely low to possibly non-existing bar for who they do an obituary on outside of the person acting in a movie. Even if it's a single, supporting role. So there's reason to use them writing an obituary for this person as some kind of notability indicator. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:38, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
Your continued soliloquy duet has devolved into diatribe, resembling a personal attack. Given your history, I am not surprised; but it is neither persuasive nor helpful. 7&6=thirteen () 12:50, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
Your defensiveness, calling my message a diatribe, and bringing up my history (whatever that is), instead of taking my question as a good faith effort to understand how WP:Preserve relates to AfDs could be considered a personal attack. I'm not surprised given your history of randomly insulting me when I ask you good faithed questions. Of course none of it has been productive. Usually the productive way to deal with being asked a question that you don't have an answer to is to just say so and move on. Not turn it into a personal battle with multiple people. Otherwise, this kind of unproductive, needless head butting and "diatribes" are bound to happen. Maybe don't be so triggered by someone showing curiosity toward you next time. --Adamant1 (talk) 17:05, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
7&6=thirteen, could you please change "duet" to "trio"? I agree with Adamant1's reply, and it is disappointing to see that your behaviour hasn't improved despite the recent AN/I visits. MrsSnoozyTurtle 21:31, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
Talking of music, O'Davoren's great-great-grandfather Rev Michael Davoren (died 1810) was collated to the Chantership of Kilfenora, parish of Noughaval and Carrane, County Clare, Ireland, in 1790.Rodolph (talk) 22:48, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete There's the obituary, which I guess is something, but it's hardly enough on it's own to justify keeping the article. Sure he's acted in a lot of things. 99% of his appearance seem to be pretty trivial roles though. For instance he played a butler like 26 times, a ship steward 7, and was a voice at a station once. All of those are pretty insignificant bit parts. So I don't really think anyone can argue the notability criteria for actors should apply to him. It's not surprising there isn't much in the references about him either considering that most of his roles were extremely low tier. In the meantime people can find the information that's in his obituary from the actual obituary or IMDB. --Adamant1 (talk) 16:44, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • delete Obits are not slamdunk evidence of notability. If that is the best we can do then this doesnt pass N. Spartaz Humbug! 22:41, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep Enough sources have surfaced during this AfD to suggest notability, if obscure now (notably does not expire). Many sources need to be tossed and the remaining kept from which a short article can be written. I'm always more impressed when a reliable third party source directly asserts notability: "well-known actors" is a 'significant' statement of notability per GNG. Another source: "a famous Hollywood actor". Given this, and the age of the topic difficulty of finding old sources, I think the right thing is keep for now and rewrite with the best sources. Rodolph will need help, it's unclear they have a solid grasp on what is a good source, when to include something or not, and copyvio concerns. -- GreenC 23:27, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep the sources (in particular the early 20th century newspaper articles) provided do appear to bring this subject over the notability threshold, just. I considered a merge to his wife as an alternative to deletion but ultimately feel the sources establish sufficient independent notability. Polyamorph (talk) 02:15, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Naina Singh

Naina Singh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article doesn't appear to pass WP:GNG. I tried to search on Google, and couldn't find any independent "significant coverage". The best helping thing in this article is that the subject has been a winner at MTV Splitsvilla in 2017. This doesn't help the actress pass WP:ANYBIO in my opinion. WP:NMODEL isn't met because there is nothing substantial role except in the Kumkum Bhagya and I do not see any borderline pass for WP:BASIC. Comments please. ─ The Aafī (talk) 09:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment This is a classic case of how liberal you want to be with WP:BASIC. She is listed in the main cast at Kumkum Bhagya so there is some notability at WP:NACTOR but even NACTOR requires multiple roles. So we can't use that to establish notability. I vaguely remember that winners of reality TV shows were considered notable but I am not able to find that essay now. Fairly possible that my memory is incorrect - hence refraining to use that as an argument. GNG is not met for sure. We are left with WP:BASIC and come back to how conservative we want to be. If we are on conservative side, we will see all sources as regular PR announcements driven by PR agencies. If we are liberal, we will take note of multiple WP:RS writing at least one to two paragraphs about the subject. So all depends on where we are on the spectrum! Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:29, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep as passes WP:NACTOR with a prominent role in Kumkum Bhagya and winning Splitsville which I would consider as a reality television role and its certainly a prominent role in a notable production. There are plenty of reliable sources in the article already to confirm a pass of WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG so there is no valid reason for deletion in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 03:14, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

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  • Delete It doesn't pass GNG as most of the coverage appears to be PR. I don't think it satisfies WP:NACTOR as well which requires multiple significant roles. It lacks here. ❯❯❯ Chunky aka Al Kashmiri (✍️) 04:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Jessica Jaymes

Jessica Jaymes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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ONEEVENT. Possibly redirect to the AVN hall of fame. All the sourcimg relates to the subjects death. We are not an obituary and otherc claims of notabilty are depreciated when pornbio was devalued. Spartaz Humbug! 20:58, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:25, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

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  • Keep Stories about her death from the BBC:[8], People:[9], and numerous other news outlets demonstrate her notability. He membership in the AVN Hall of Fame also demonstrates that she is notable in the industry. Thriley (talk) 18:37, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
    • all the coverage is of one event so since we are not news there needs to be evidence of enduring coverage for the event to count for retention. As for AVN HoF this is 2021 and pornbio hasn’t been a thing for a very long time and its no longer criteria to keep an article. Afraid you argument doesn’t really address the policy based reasons for deletion. Spartaz Humbug! 19:56, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep A BBC obituary for an American + AVN Hall of Fame would be enough for me for notability, although I could see why some might argue the other way. But international coverage of someone's death at least points towards notability (her death was also reported on by Notimex in Mexico).[10]
    There's at least one other time she got large media coverage, but it's very tabloid-y (mostly because it was first reported on by tabloids and then picked up by regular newspapers): a rumor that she slept with Nick Lachey,[11][12][13][14] and then later about how she wanted to sell the rights to the story.[15][16] - Whisperjanes (talk) 08:36, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
    • I feel you are also proving the point of this being oneevent. As I mentioned HoF no longer confers notability so an argument on that basis is rejecting the community consensus on how we assess notability for porn performers. Spartaz Humbug! 10:53, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep. As the nominator correctly points out in the intro, Jaymes is dead. So there is no WP:BLP concern. I further agree that most of the coverage was only after her death. But that happened with a lot of historical figures. There was also coverage during her life. Passes the WP:GNG with flying colors. All-in-all, the death per se was a minor event, and Jaymes had a passive role in it, so I would be against moving the article to a death of title. It was a trigger to write more about James. Did I say absolutely no WP:BLP concern? gidonb (talk) 02:35, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete If the only coverage is in death, in the usual celebrity Page Six way, then, one had a rather unremarkable and therefore (in Gpedia terms) non-notable life. "Appeared as herself on the Howard Stern Show" is also a rather vivid marker of padding-the-resume. Zaathras (talk) 13:53, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Nombulelo Mhlongo

Nombulelo Mhlongo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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extensive promotional articles, as typical for performers--even minor performers like her, with no major roles to her credit and no awards. DGG ( talk ) 04:14, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

It's unclear based on that link if it's the same as Scream Awards. = paul2520 💬 18:21, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Not the same. Link says this is the "Sophomore edition" (which means second edition). Scream Awards has been existing longer than that. I don't know if they are from the same organization though as this is primarily for Africa. If this article does not survive AFD, I think it should at least be draftified, I see prospects in the coming months. HandsomeBoy (talk) 07:55, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

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Ragnhild Michelsen

Ragnhild Michelsen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NACTOR, WP:BASIC, and WP:ANYBIO. To the best of my ability to find films she was in, she does not appear to have lead or otherwise significant roles in multiple notable films. She also does not appear to have received WP:SIGCOV that I could find (and none exist in articles on the various Scandanavian Wikipedias that have her article on it). As a result, I propose that this article be deleted for failing to be notable. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 05:36, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

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  • Keep Article has improved a lot since this AfD and coverage seems to pass. RoseCherry64 (talk) 11:17, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

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  • Keep, clearly notable; I'm honestly not sure how the original nominator missed that on a google search. Yitz (talk) 21:07, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Darcey Vanderhoef

Darcey Vanderhoef (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Contested PROD [17]. Fails NACTOR. No noteworthy credits and little to no coverage in RS. KH-1 (talk) 00:09, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

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  • Delete Direct-to-video movies are hardly wikipedia worthy. Oaktree b (talk)

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Gpedia:Articles for deletion/Nazanin Bayati

Billy Reid (Canadian songwriter)

Billy Reid (Canadian songwriter) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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Semi-advertorialized WP:BLP of a musician and comedy video creator, not properly referenced as passing WP:CREATIVE. The primary notability claim here is that his work exists, which is not an automatic notability freebie in the absence of reliably sourced evidence of its significance (third party coverage, noteworthy awards, etc.) -- but after I stripped a whole bunch of "YouTube video cited as circular verification of its own existence" footnotes, the only sources left are his IMDb profile, his own self-published website about himself, a deadlinked newspaper article which I searched for in ProQuest and found that it's just a glancing namecheck of his existence in an article which isn't about him in any non-trivial sense, and a short blurb in a blog which tangentially verifies the existence of a piece of content while completely failing to mention Billy Reid as having had anything to do with it. And even in that ProQuest search, I mostly get irrelevant hits for different Billy Reids, and what little I do get for this one isn't enough to get him over WP:GNG: apart from two wire service articles released within two days of each other in 2013, I just get more glancing namechecks of his existence and a couple of pieces in smalltown community hyperlocals in Vancouver Island, and that's not enough. Bearcat (talk) 17:58, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Weak Delete - The sourcing in the article is simply atrocious, and not useable for establishing notability. My own search turns up this Times Colonist article also published in the Vancouver Sun. It is substantial and certainly contributes towards notability. But in my search for other coverage, the best I could do was a community paper article, and a guest post in Canadian Living magazine. The article has a link to a Globe and Mail article which is not online any more but I was able to pull up an archive which turns out to be primarily about the show Exposure which Reid is mentioned as the host. If there were one more good source, I'd be convinced to switch to a keep, but this falls just below the notability bar for me. -- Whpq (talk) 14:43, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

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  • Keep - In addition to the previous articles, I believe the recently added archived video and newspaper news coverage, as well as his work as a celebrity spokesperson for a nation-wideDoritos campaign should be sufficient for notability. -- FanOfPuppets (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:14, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
YouTube video of interviews in which Billy Reid was answering questions about himself in the first person aren't support for notability — notability is supported by sources in which the subject's significance is being discussed and analyzed in the third person by people other than himself, not by sources in which he's talking about himself in the first person. Being a spokesperson for an online viral video contest is not "inherently" notable, and your source for that is a short blurb that just soundbites a quote from Billy Reid rather than coverage about Billy Reid. And as for the Vancouver Sun hit, well, that was already both addressed in my nomination statement ("apart from two wire service articles released within two days of each other in 2013") and considered and assessed by Whpq in their delete vote. It isn't enough coverage to turn the tide all by itself if it's the only source that's actually getting him off the starting blocks. Bearcat (talk) 13:25, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
To be fair, there is a second Times Colonist article added which is substantial, but that's really just two articles from the same newspaper. It really needs a substantial article from a different source. The other sourcing doesn't really cut it as explained above. An appearance on a morning show doesn't establish notability. I've been on CITY's Breakfast Television, and I can guarantee you that I do not meet the notability criteria. -- Whpq (talk) 15:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
I found an interesting article from the Globe and Mail that discusses how YouTube invited him to edit the video choices on homepage(back when there was a currated homepage.) -- FanOfPuppets (talk) 21:23, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

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Jafar Najafi

Jafar Najafi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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References do not pass WP:GNG as far as I can see - RichT|C|E-Mail 01:03, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

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  • Keep On 25 Nov 2021, for the second time, Jafar Najafi, won the prize of IDFA (International Documentary Film Festival Amsterdam) which is the largest documentary film festival in the world. (Prize category: Best First Feature): SOURCE. --Malekfarugh (talk) 21:44, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I struck your second "Keep". One per person is enough Geschichte (talk) 09:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

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